You guys are missing the point. It's not about comparing Clemens to these other QB's. It's about considering the amount of games he's played, it's too early to pass judgment on him.
I understand that, but comparing him by stats which can be turned anyway you want is just dumb. Right now, this is what I know about Clemens: 1. Accuracy is an issue. Don't know if this can be corrected. 2. Decision making at this point is slow. Needs experience and more importantly a good QB coach. 3. Presnap read is causing lots of errors. See above. 4. Seems to be tough. 5. Has a decent arm for strength. This is what I have seen from him. I don't think he has a command of the offense, yet. He definately needs coaching. I still think Schotty is a big problem as OC and it will show even more next year when he is dealing with Kellen instead of Chad.
I agree with Shade..well put. We may as well get an experienced guy, look how well Garcia has done with the Eagles and Bucs. Maybe we just stick with Chad, rather than waste a year. Again, we have to see what Mangini thinks and Jet mgmt, but my guess is he will not be our qb (Clemens) next year.
That's exactly the point. It's way too early to tell in any meaningful sort of way how Clemens is going to develop. The reality of the world is that you rarely get the sort of instant gratification that people look for in their snap judgments. These evaluations take time and a much larger body of work to look at.
Then say that, not look Clemens has the similar stats to Manning after 5 starts so he is going to break the TD record and be a HOFer and make a lot of commercials.
I think a lot of what we see in his latest throws are brought about by him possibly losing confidence in our offensive line - can you blame him? He has to have in the back of his mind on every snap that he stands a great chance of being pancaked; plus, the guy has no running game to rely on either. He has been placed in an extremely difficult position.
Fair enough, but don't count me among the people anointing him. I'd call myself guardedly optimistic. I see no reason not to be optimistic as a fan within reason. It gives me hope for the future of our team.
Why not compare David Carr to Clemens? I don't think any QB came into the NFL with a worse Offensive line. He was sacked 39 times in his first 6 games. He had 6 TDs and 6 INTs. I see Clemens being more like Carr then a All-Pro like Maning or Palmer,
Yeah that's definitely a straw man fallacy. But you have to figure that some people believe that, just like some people are already claiming he's a bust.
It's clear that you are one of the people that have already made up your mind based on his limited starts and you refuse to acknowledge the point MP is attempting to make here. Your mind is made up after 6 starts, we get it.
I think Clemens has the potential to be a Drew Brees type QB. He's not going to be elite but he's going to be damn good with talent around him. I look at last year's Saints as the kind of offense we could be employing. Substitute Leon for Bush and Jones for McCallister. Beef up the offensive line, improve the defense and we're a playoff team.
Because I choose to bring a different QB into the comparison? There is no way in hell he will turn out to be Peyton Manning. Manning is a once in a generation talent. It makes zero sense to put his first six against Clemens, none at all.
Excellent work on the original post. Palmer is the appropriate comparison because he also got forcefed his second season. Manning started as a rookie. As several other people have already pointed out, all we know about Clemens at this point is that we don't know how good he will be yet. I've seen enough from him to want to find out.
How many threads have there been comparing his stats to Elway, Bradshaw, Manning, Palmer etc. The bottom line is we have hope to stand on. The FO needs to bring in a veteran to compete with Clemens and let him develop next year, but have a backup plan.
Was talking more in generality than at you. I agree with you position. There is really no point in expecting doom and gloom with him because what fun would that be?
This along with the slow reads.. One of the things that sticks in my mind was a slant thrown a couple weeks ago on a 3 step drop that landed 3 yards in front of the WR.
Just FYI, I'll guarantee you that nobody saw Brett Favre turning into what he turned into. And I'll take Favre's career over Peyton's at this point, given he did it in the wind and snow while Peyton played in a tent.
Sticking with Chad would be an asinine decision. He is terrible. He is, in fact, worse than Clemens. Even Sunday his performance was a mirage. It seems impressive statistically and there were lots of completions and some nice touch passes, but it did not provide any level of offense. Just dump off after dumpoff. I cannot understand how anyone would want Chad anymore, but I guess people just get sucked in by him Thankfully, we have a coach that realizes Kellen is better than Chad. Hopefully we dump Chad, but regardless Kellen will be the starter next year. And I think he is going to be very good.
