McGwire, Palmeiro, Sosa, and Mota must have been getting it from someone other than Radomski or McNamee. These two guys weren't the only ones dealing to players. They didn't catch everyone so it's half-assed? Unfair to release the report? So if they don't catch everyone then everyone should get away with it? What kind of logic is that?
I couldn't agree more! Any baseball fan that thinks his team doesn't have its share of "juicers", is just as naive as any football fan that thinks that only the Pats were videotaping...
Okay, so let me say a few things. 1) I don't give a damn about Clemens. Everyone has been saying he was a juicer for years now, so it's not a big surprise that his name dropped. Now he has to disappear into obscurity for his own actions. 2) Pettitte's name had been mentioned in the same breath for a few years now, so it's not a huge shock either. (The circumstances of his use are a little better though. At least he did it to aid the healing process. Not that it excuses it, but I can almost understand.) 3) The problem with so many Yankees on the list is a multifaceted problem. a) They are players from championship teams. It's already got the talk started that the Yankees championships are tainted. Of course die-hard fans are going to get defensive. Just like Pats fans. b) Unlike the Pats, we know for sure that there are many more people who were doing the exact same thing as those who were "busted" today, who didn't get named. c) The "evidence" is the word of an ex-cop, who was busted nailing a chick who had been given a date-rape drug. Said "evidence" was acquired during 4 meetings with Mitchell and his federal agents, only 3 of which were attended by his lawyer. d) The list is admittedly incomplete. And we're also hearing that we'll never hear all of the names, because no one is interested in further investigation. e) Said list was released by a member of the Red Sox organization, and the majority of the list is current or former players for the Yankees, Mets, and Orioles. There are few names on the list who were Red Sox at the time of use, and none of which were part of championship teams, unlike players named from both NY teams. Again, whether he meant to or not, it's a clear conflict of interest. (And yes, it probably had to do with the only two people he could get to actually talk to him, but a conflict of interest is still just that.) So, in the end, it appears that the Yankees are the biggest cheaters in the sport, which is wholesale ridiculous. I'm not excusing the behavior of anyone named. All I'm saying is that it's ridiculous to point a finger at just the Yankees, but we're already seeing non-Yankee fans doing just that. Every team has guilty players. The entire sport is dirty, not just the Yankees.
My point is Palmerio and Mota tested positive... so why aren't they on the report? Not that it really matters since everyone already knows about them... but were they interviewed about where they got their drugs from? was anyone who tested positive? That's how you expand the investigation... And I stand by the half assed remark... thats obvious just by the lack of blame on Selig
Their names didn't come up because they aren't connected to Radomski or McNamee. Unfortunately, those are the only two guys who cooperated. He requested player interviews but couldn't demand them, and guess what? Nobody showed up for an interview (except Giambi). Mitchell couldn't force anyone to sit for an interview, no matter if they tested positive. All these names came out only because those two guys spoke. And I agree with you 100% that Selig and the owners should not get off scot free, though they will.
Hmmm... I'm no lawyer, but don't baseball fans have cause for a class action suit? Have we not been defrauded?
And thats my point about it being half assed... no one showed... no one talked... except two criminals trying their best to stay out of jail... Mitchell had no real power... But yet all these names are released and reputations are ruined... some with nothing more than the words of two criminals.... that my friend is the oppitomy of half assed
It's tough because how could you actually punish them? I mean what tangible punishment is available to punish the owners? Fines? Suspension? Public flogging? Public flogging.
Selig should be forced to resign then tarred and feathered ... the owners should be forced to lower ticket prices & concessions... that's the only way the fans aren't the one's who really end up paying
This was the first season of baseball I watched since the strike because I can hold a grudge better than anyone else I know. It will be the last for I can’t even begin to imagine. I really am quitting as a sports fan – I’m going to find something else to amuse myself with besides these athfrauds.
Eh...the ad hominem stuff is not so strong, I feel. They're not to be trusted because they're criminals? No gangster or drug dealer would ever get caught if one of his criminal buddies didn't flip on him. Also, it's not like they just threw out Clemens' name like "oh yeah, I saw Clemens do it once." They provided very detailed descriptions of purchases and use in both Toronto and New York. What got me going in this thread was that, in the beginning, people were acting like it was some Boston-New York thing, and all the Yankee fans got REAL defensive when there were no prominent Red Sox on the list. I think that's silly. Having said that, Yankee fans ARE getting killed in some other threads around here which, for the record, I think is ridiculous. If there are any fans who think their team is or was clean during this era then they don't get what's really going on here.
I'm not usually a spelling ninny, but I just have to say, that's not even a phonetic spelling of epitome!
Hey, does anyone realize there's a football game going on now? Houston 24 Denver 13 4:00 in the 4th quarter at least Denver's getting beat. edit: make that 31-13 with 3:20 left.
Yeah, obviously there is no way to truly punish them. Well, unless this does what the strike couldn't truly do, and turn off general fandom so much that they never come back. The purse is the place to hurt them. The sad thing is, every baseball fan that is honest about the situation will place a large portion of the blame on ownership. We all know the owners were fine with steroid use. It brought the game back post-strike, and the gate is the only place that truly matters to the owners. I understand where you're coming from, but your last paragraph explains why we jumped so quickly to begin with. This behavior was expected, just based on history. Most non-Yankees fans are only too happy to jump on anything that hurts the Yankees. Honestly, I expected more backlash from Sox fans than Mets fans. Silly me.
