Barry Bonds INDICTED on perjury and obstruction of justice charges

Discussion in 'Baseball Forum' started by Don, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. AlioTheFool

    AlioTheFool Spiveymaniac

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    Messages:
    13,601
    Likes Received:
    0
    Eh, Hobbes, I agree and disagree.

    Yes, it's one thing that he was able to "properly" train to gain weight, but there is more to it than that.

    Enough studies have shown conclusively that the use of steroids actually increases hand-to-eye coordination, a critical component of hitting a baseball out of the park.

    Couple that with the unnatural (and yes, it is unnatural) weight gain, and you have a distinct competitive advantage.

    On the subject of ephedra, it does cause irregular heartbeats, and therefore is a health risk. Rather than trying to solve our nation's weight problem with drugs, it's about time the education system actually went back to teaching the Food Pyramid. That, however, is a wholly different topic.
     
  2. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    Messages:
    23,098
    Likes Received:
    1,588
    He is accused of perjuring himself about the use/misuse of illegal drugs, isn't that the same thing?
     
  3. Hobbes3259

    Hobbes3259 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    15,454
    Likes Received:
    393


    No on the eye-hand...Bat speed, of course, but there is no eye-hand link.





    Taking aspirin, is a health risk. Yes, the Western diet, high in fats, and carbohydrates is not a good thing, but ultimately, diet is far more controllable at the personal level, than regulatory overreach.
     
  4. AlioTheFool

    AlioTheFool Spiveymaniac

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    Messages:
    13,601
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've seen many opposing studies to contradict yours regarding hand-eye, so it's not worth us sitting here arguing it all day. Even if you are right, it's still a competitive advantage, based solely on the text you posted.

    Of course diet is far more under control by an individual, but we're talking about a drug on the market directly responsible for killing people. That's not regulatory overreach, that's the FDA actually fulfilling their function.

    You can sit and talk all you want about less government regulation, but the fact is, if the government didn't regulate things like ephedra, we'd have all manner of life-threatening drugs on the shelves. John Q. Public has neither the time, nor the personal resources to investigate every single product on the shelf.
     
  5. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack pǝʇɔıppɐ ʎןןɐʇoʇ
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2003
    Messages:
    10,646
    Likes Received:
    1,059
    Right, but "caught" is a loaded term here. He did admit using the cream and the clear; he just thought that they were arthritis cream and flaxseed oil (says he). We also don't know what was in the first round of MLB testing - the one that was supposed to be kept anonymous, but was then subpoenaed by the US Attorney over MLBPA objections.

    In the end, for all the fuss, the BALCO investigation and prosecution has been all fluff and little substance. All the rooting through trash; all that seized evidence; all those glitzy names, for what?! Victor Conte did four months in jail. Greg Anderson did, what, three months in jail and another year for contempt when he refused to testify? A whole big bag of nuthin'. It made for a good book (and I see that Mark Fainaru-Wada is now writing for ESPN), but not much else.

    I don't agree that the US Attorney wasn't able to get an indictment in the first grand jury. It's confidential, so we don't really know. But, it's just too easy to indict, so I'd me more apt to think that it was a choice by the US Attorney. I'm guessing he let that grand jury expire and started fresh to further leverage Greg Anderson and essentially take a couple of practice swings at it. At this point, the prosecution can't afford to lose and look any more foolish, because of how little the BALCO investigation had actually produced in convictions. Plenty of mea culpas and plenty of headlines - just no hearty convictions. And this one won't be any better.

    I also don't agree that Barry hasn't been defiant. I really do think that's the source behind this. He's been artful with his words. On several occasions, he said such things as, "I've never failed a single drug test," which is very true. MLB also never had testing at the time. And, when you read some of his testimony reprinted in Game of Shadows, he was CLEARLY playing games on the stand. And he didn't have to do that. He was immune. He could have admitted to licking The Clear off Victor Conte's wife's ass, and he would have walk away untouched. That he chose to play word games with his testimony must have pissed the US Attorney off to no end, and led us to where we - ridiculously - are today.
     
  6. Hobbes3259

    Hobbes3259 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    15,454
    Likes Received:
    393

    He tried to minimize his public exposure. As I said, he makes his living in an Entertainment industry.

    Therefore perception = earnings potential.


    What the government did, was in effect dishonest.

    "Barry, we'll grant you limited immunity to testify, but we'll reserve the right to pursue purjury and obstruction"


    Which creates a legal/mechanical effect of removing the 5th Amendment protection.


    Then they ask him questions which if answered would pretty much ruin his career......




    This case has frightening parallels to the Scooter Libby case.


    No real underlying crime, yet, you have a guy facing tens of millions of dollars in legal fees, and possible incarceration, because a federal prosecutor has him in his sights for some underlying personal prejudice.
     
  7. Hobbes3259

    Hobbes3259 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    15,454
    Likes Received:
    393
    Alio, I think you are letting prejudice color your reason....


    Did you mean like the FDA approved pharmaceutical drugs we prescribe to children for ADHD, or depression, that results in turning kids that should be pursuing dreams into perpatrators of nightmares...?


    Or the same government that was so busy accelerating a legally required vaccination schedule, that no one bothered to check and see how much mercury they were pumping into little children....


    As I pointed out, ephedra was being consumed at a rate of 3 billion doses a year, with little or no side effects. More people were dying annually from Aspirin.
     
  8. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack pǝʇɔıppɐ ʎןןɐʇoʇ
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2003
    Messages:
    10,646
    Likes Received:
    1,059
    I hear you, but we part ways in this one respect. He did have immunity, and that was good enough for the likes of Giambi, Sheffield, and really everyone else but Barry and Marion Jones. All he had to do was testify truthfully (or, even lie plausibly, like Sheffield). More importantly, though, the process is SUPPOSED to be confidential and all testimony sealed. I'm not trying to give cover to the US Attorney's office, but it was Victor Conte's lawyer who unlawfully released testimony for Game of Shadows.
     
  9. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    16,864
    Likes Received:
    16,003
    Closer to Martha Stewart, actually.
     
  10. ollie

    ollie Right Wing NutJob

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2003
    Messages:
    8,310
    Likes Received:
    38
    Except buying and using steriods is actually illegal...
     
  11. Hobbes3259

    Hobbes3259 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    15,454
    Likes Received:
    393
    Not really...Stewart got caught up in the backlash of a much larger crime.

    Sam Waksal went to prison for several years......


    Niether Conte, nor Arnold, did any 'real' time like that....And in the Libby case, no underlying crime was ever charged, and the person who actually leaked the info was KNOWN, to the prosecutor....and the subsequent investigation wound up snaring a target that was in effect larger than the investigation that began the inquiry.....
     
  12. Hobbes3259

    Hobbes3259 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    15,454
    Likes Received:
    393
    Barry isn't charged with that, is he?
     
  13. Hobbes3259

    Hobbes3259 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    15,454
    Likes Received:
    393

    To that end I agree with you in principle, but, it comes back to the argument of proportionality, and responsible government behavior...thats the part of this that bothers me...
     
  14. JoeJet

    JoeJet Banned

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,520
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mike and the Mad Dog had Jack Ford from Court TV on today. For those not familiar with Ford, he is a former prosecutor and defense attorney. He said the federal government would not have indicted Bonds unless they were certain they were going to put him away. He said its too late for Bonds to make any kind of a deal. Bonds and his attorney have gone past the point of pissing off the feds with their stonewalling. Realistically, Bonds is looking at anywhere from 6 to 30 months in jail, more likely closer to 6.
     
  15. Hobbes3259

    Hobbes3259 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    15,454
    Likes Received:
    393

    There is no certainty with a jury. IIRC he also (or it might have been Roger Cossack on Michael Kay) who made the further point that generally speaking it's not people with those kinds of financial resources getting indicted....
     
  16. typeOnegative13NY

    typeOnegative13NY Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    14,958
    Likes Received:
    4,906
    I don't like bonds and didn't want to see him break the record as a cheater,but the jail part is bullshit! He should be banned from baseball and stripped of the record if he is found guilty. It's really funny how if he is found guilty he could spend over 10 years in prison but the fukin record will still stand.
    I hope they find Schilling as a cheater too.
     
  17. ollie

    ollie Right Wing NutJob

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2003
    Messages:
    8,310
    Likes Received:
    38
    Because he's charged by the Feds. There's not federal charge for buying steriods for your own use, just trafficking.... this case was about taking down BALCO for drug trafficking.... for Bonds to be charged for purchasing and possession it would have to be a state charge....
     
  18. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    Messages:
    23,098
    Likes Received:
    1,588
    It is a federal charge too but that isn't what this case was about as you point out. There have always been federal laws against the illegal use of steroids which is what makes it so funny when people say "Well, MLB didn't make it illegal until 3 years ago" as if to say MLB can usurp federal law.

    He is charged with lying about buying and using illegal substances so indirectly he is being accused of that too.
     
  19. thrill5one6

    thrill5one6 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2007
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    He just did the juice better than anyone else. Hundreds of players used it.
     

Share This Page