I am still trying to figure out how Herm Edwards wins games. He went to KC, had to go with Huard for awhile, and still makes the playoffs. Now, Croyle bombs, LJ blows up to the media regarding the coaching, and he is 4-3. Herm somehow wins and I hvae no clue how he does it.
nyjunc, groh is 7-1 this year at UVA. not sure how that is underachieving? havent seen too many first day picks come out of there, its not like they are florida with their personell but yet you find a way to get in here on a groh thread and pump up sperm edwards. you will take every opportunity you can to give an edwards was great post. you are absolutely impossible. you remind me of a 12 year old who has their mind set on something and their parents dont have the ability to let them know that they cant have everything they want. congatulations though you continue to be the most frustrating poster on this website.
He does have good motivational skills and most of his players seem to like playing for him. In Kansas City he has had the opportunity to coach a few future Hall of Famers. Will Shields (retired after last season) and Tony Gonzalez will be inducted into the PFHOF. Larry Johnson has Hall of Fame talent. He's got an All-Pro guard in Brian Waters. Bottom line is has had good teams and he's competent enough to usually get those teams into the playoffs as a 5 or 6 seed.
Well, one thing that's clear is that he won't keep coordinators around if their units are not performing. He'll even throw a coordinator under the bus if the public perception is that his unit is failing when in fact it's doing as well as it could be expected to. Case in point: Paul Hackett who did a better job with the Jets west coast and Chad then anybody else is likely to.
That's just the way Herm operates. He knows he's not there for the X's and O's.... He's going to get the players jacked up to play every game, and if a section of the team is not performing, or he's under that impression, he's going to bring someone in to try and make it work.... In my opinion, a guy like Herm has about a 3-5 year window with any one team to win, before the players won't put their bodies on the line for him anymore... I firmly believe, that, eventually, Herm will fall into the right situation and get a ring.... It may not be anytime soon, but I don't think he's going away as a HC anytime soon, and I'm sure he'll get an opportunity with a team, eventually, where he'll win the big one....
He could do that in college. He'd probably be a good recruiter and would be good on the banquet circuit.
You only have one sample set to make that assumption. It sounds good, but the jury is still out on Herm the Worm. Suffice it to say that most of us here feel that he F'ed up our team, or should I say Bill's team. We'll see in KC if he has learned from his mistakes. He has the potential to be a good coach. Not too many guys get hired away from their old job. That's a compliment in and of itself. Ya gotta love football.
Vinny was coming of the achilles injury and in just 15 games Vinny threw the ball 590 times(39 a game). We were behind alot thanks to groh's aeplans and we had to abandon Curtis which is why Vinny threw 25 INts and we fell apart lat in the year. The following year vinny threw it just 41 times in 16 games(28 per game) and that was the difference btw gong to the postseason and missing. The team was not in "full blown mutiny", the tam wa injury ravaged. W lost our top 2 QBs, our top 2 RBs, only 1 OL started and ended the year in the same position, 2 pro bowl caber DL were hurt much of the year, our best defensive player from '04(Barton) missed the bulk of th year, our best Ts player(McClover) missed the year. We played a good portion of the season w/ a 4th str QB and 3rd string RB and STILL that team never quit. There was never a "mutiny". His teams avoid TOs, rarely commit penalties and hey always give him effort. If the Chiefs were so talented then why couldn't Vermeil win w/them? Why did Vermeil(w/ ALOT more talent in KC) make the playoffs just ONCE in 5 years while Herm w/ less talent made it n year 1 and as of today would be making it in year 2? 7-1 and who have they beat exactly? Their lone loss is a 23-3 bowout against WYOMING, they beat duke by just 11, Carolina by just 2, Mid Ten State by just 2. '06: 5-7 '05: 7-5 '04: 8-4 '03: 8-5 '02: 9-5 '01: 5-6 Yephe's doe an amzing job there w/ the ACC being a terible onf for most of thse years, w/o a dominant FSU or Miami they have ever lost fewer than 4 games. maybe they don't have UF talent but EVERY yea they are ranked high whethe recruiting rankings come out. Click the link below. In recruiting they were and 10th by scout.com in '02, 17th in '03, 25th in '04, a 14th in '05. They didn't sow '01 but I remember UVa being very highly ranked that year as well so he's had the talent in a down ACC to win and win big and he hasn't. I apologize if you do not like facts and the facts are Herm is a GOOD NFL HC while groh was not a good NFL HC an is not a good college HC. I bashed herm plenty when he was here but only when he deserved it, I didn't blame everything on him that went wrong like most of you guys did. The #s didn't lie when he was coaching here and they aren't lying now. I can't help you if you still have an agenada against him, the proof is in the results and as much as I like Mangini and think he'll e better than Herm he isn't yet and herm never had a seaon like this when his team was healthy.
Edwards is coaching better players on defense than Vermeil. Vermeil was stuck starting guys like Ryan Sims (major bust out of UNC), Greg Wesley, William (No INTs) Bartee, Mike Maslowski, Derrick Ransom, and Eric Warfield to name a few. Also, please note that the Chiefs did have 13-3 and 10-6 seasons under Vermeil. I'm sure you'll never agree. You'll respond to this post in such a way that you'll make it seem Vermeil was coaching the 1985 Bears in 2005 and that Edwards inherited the 1976 Buccaneers in 2006.
13-3 and lost a home playoff game, 10-6 thanks to cincy resting their starters in week 16. He had ONE playoff appearance, matched by herm in just 1 year there. Vermeil had Jared Allen, Kendrell bell, Eric hicks, Derrick johnson, Sammy knight, Patrick Surtain, Kawika Mitchell, Greg Wesley- all players that were also starters in 2006 so why couldn't KC make the playoffs in '05 but could in '06? I love the talent excuse lie all of a sudden Herm has the most talented team in the league and vermeil had nothing to work w/. this KC team isn't anywhere near the KC teams of 3-4 years ago in terms of sheer talent. offensively oviosuly it's nowhere near the same across the board but on STs the Vermeil teams had a huge edge and defensively they were very close. he had Shawn Barber, Scott Fujita, Eric Hicks, Vonie Holliday, Dexter Mcleon, Warfield, Wesley, Woods. he had talent to win and could not, herm is getting the job done down there. there isn't a person alive who expected KC to compete this year and they are leading their division. Canyou guys EVER give the man just an ounce of respect?
You are being ridiculous once again. Also, you are severely distorting my message once again. I dislike getting into arguments with you for this very reason. If somebody wants to disagree with me- fine. But do so without distorting my fuckin' message. I'll respond to this later after the WVU game is over.
Herm is doing a nice job so far this year, the team is 4 & 3 not exactly world beaters. Your argument on the playoffs in 06 vs 05 is just nonesense. The Chiefs were 10 & 6 in 05 and didn't make the playoffs because the two wild card teams that year won 11 and 12 games. In 06 10 and 9 games got you a wild card. That isn't the result of coaching it's a result of a drop off in elite teams opening up the field. The fact is both the Jets and the Chiefs were blown out in the playoffs in 06 and neither were that good. Did the Chiefs play above their talent to get 9 wins last year? Are they less than 1 game over 500 with a different HC this year? If the Chiefs win 10 games this year I would give Herm major props. They have 3 games left against teams that they should easily beat. Let's see him get to 10 or 11 wins. If he does I will give him props.
So going 9-6 in the other 15 games doesn't mean anything? As for that question there, Winstonbiggs basically answered it for me. In 2005, the AFC Wild Card teams went 12-4 and 11-5. Vermeil and KC's 10-6 mark was not good enough. In 2006, the Wild Card teams went 10-6 and 9-7. Edwards and KC's 9-7 mark was good enough. I think one would have to do some research to come to a better conclusion than what you have done here. You are saying the '06 Chiefs at 9-7 were better than the 2005 10-6 Chiefs only because they made the playoffs. It just doesn't always work that way. See 1985. The Broncos went 11-5 and did not make the playoffs. In the same conference, the Browns went 8-8 and made the playoffs. Were the 1985 Browns better than the 1985 Broncos? Probably not.
Also, I must point out some factually incorrect information which you have presented. Eric Hicks was on the Chiefs roster in 2006, but he did not start any games. It was quite deceptive of you to not note the fact Hicks was replaced at left end by the Chiefs 1st round selection in the 2006 draft, Tamba Hali.
What message was I distorting? you made it seem like herm has a much more talented team and more specifically D when Herm and Vermeil had similar talent on D to work w/ and Vermeil had a huge edge on O and STs. That team should have won about 4 games total this year. they won the games thy needed to win in 2006 and didn't in 2005- it's that simple. They won a 10th game in '05 ONLY b/c Cincy rested their starters in week 17 otherwise they only win 9 as well. They lost back to back games to Dal and NYg in dec and that cost them a playoff spot, they then won the final 2 games w/o any pessure on them as they had been eliminated. yes they played over their heads to get to 9 wins b/c they ahd alot less talent in '06 than they did in '05. they made the playoffs w/ Damon Huard at QB most of the season, w/o 2 starting OL(including a HOF caliber LT) from '05 and w/o their PB FB. Nope, they didn't have a chance at the playoffs b/c thy lost back to back games to Dal and NYG and they had alot more talent in 2005 so having essentially the same record in't really impressive. KC had an opportunity to win 11-12 games, they blew back to back games to Dal and NYG and that cost them a shot, if they win one of thsoe 2 like they should have then that Cincy game becomes meaningful. The records were better in '05 b/c they were alot more bad teams while the conf was more balanced in '06. In '05 7 teams had 6 or fewer wins, in '06 4 teams had 6 or fewer wins. those records were inflted little bit in 2005 by beating up on bad teams and KC couldn't win the amount of games they needed to while in '06 they did. Pretty much, is it better to go 10-6 and miss the playoffs or 9-7 and make the playoffs? also don't forget that in '05 they really were 9-7 b/c they don't beat Cincy if Cincy needs that W. The '05 team was more talented, the '06 team got the job done. Give me the team that gets the job done. That comparison doesn't work b/c Cle was in an awful division so they weren't being matched up head to head. Cle didn't beat out Den for a playoff spot. Does this really make a difference? This actually helps the Herm argument since Hicks was a damn good player before his injury. hali is a good, developing player(who I think will be better than Hicks) but he's not yet hicks in his prime. The bottom line is herm had less talent w/ KC than Vermil had and in year 1 did something Vermeil cold only do once in 5 years. Just like the old herm argumetns when he was here I don't think Herm is a great coach but he is a good one and as bad as you guys think he is he always manages to get his teams to the postseason.
Make it 7-2 after losing to previously winless in conf NC State yesterday. tel me again how he has not underachieved at UVa?
That is not what I was asking. (Another case of you distorting a message. Do you do this sort of thing to annoy people?) I'll repeat. Were the 2005 10-6 Chiefs better than the 2006 9-7 Chiefs? Wow! Because nyjunc said so, the Chiefs no doubt about it would have lost to the Bengals. Froozin' great, man. The two teams were very similar in personnel. The differences were in the coaching staff. Vermeil won more games, but unfortunately did not make the playoffs due to the conference being stronger. In 2006, the Chiefs did get the job done after several teams dropped dead at the end of the year. Edwards and the '06 Chiefs had a lot of help. Vermeil and the '05 Chiefs did not get that help. The 2006 Chiefs certainly did get the job done, alright. They played awful football in the Wild Card game in Indianapolis. 2005 Chiefs 10-6 2006 Chiefs 9-8 I took a quick glance at key statistics for those two teams. It is hard to say which team was better or which team was coached better. You are wrong. The comparison is great. Are you froozin' kidding me? Hicks in 2005 was significantly worse than Hali in 2006. Why do you think the Chiefs drafted Hali in the 1st round in 2006. Give me a break, sir. By the way, I don't have any major problems with Herman Edwards. Therefore, I'd prefer this debate ends soon. I also hate seeing you shit on Vermeil when he and Edwards are friends. Vermeil is a key figure in Edwards' NFL careers as player and coach. As a human being, I like Edwards more than I like Eric Mangini. I might even like Edwards as a coach more, especially after this crap I'm seeing from the Jets this year. I prefer the Tampa 2 defense over the 3-4. I just simply did not want Edwards coaching the Jets beyond the 2005 season.
To whoever said they Jets players purposely tanked the season on Groh, you're nuts. Players that have a chance at the playoffs are never gonna do that. It's just stupid to even suggest that.
This is probably true. Players don't have all that long to play in the NFL and tanking a season would require a real hatred of the coach or owner involved. What happened in 2000 was that teams started focusing on shutting down two players: Curtis Martin and Wayne Chrebet and the offense died. Martin was always shut downable with 8 men in the box and Chrebet could be shut down at will by a double-team. Early in the season teams were playing the Jets straight up and Martin and Chrebet were having a fairly big effect. By the midpoint of the season everybody was focusing on the two potential game-breakers and the Jets offense declined, down to very little at the end.
