I think this is your strongest point. It is just pig-headed to stick with a scheme that clearly isn't working. I do think, however, that we seem to hear this sort of talk a lot from the Jets. The defensive players start to bitch and whine about the scheme not freeing them to play aggressively, or to just run to the ball. The real fact is they aren't tackling worth a damn and that's technique and desire, not the scheme. Remember that Jets defenders must be looking for ways to excuse their incredibly poor play so far this year. I think the scheme is wrong, but that isn't the only problem.
I don't think you can pass judgement just yet. After 8 games this season, when we're 4-4, then you can pass judgement. Let's give them a few weeks to settle in and then we'll see where we are.
This is a good thread. We have a fairly talented defense and the numbers we are putting up or letting get through suggests that something is just not working. We should be much better on D than we are. A ranking of 27 with our talent is inexcusable. We either fix this thing fast and do some kind of morph 3-4 or we go in another direction; it's that simple. If we stay doing what we are doing and don't get better on D, you can sign for about a 7 win season and that will be that. Currently, the D is our achilles heal...........period. It's not Chad or the O line or the running game; it is all about the D and the lack thereof.
Agreed, it's not the only problem. As mentioned, there is the issue of not having a bona fide NT, there is the issue of Sutton getting outcoached by the Miami CS last week, there is the issue of some player discontent and frustration with the system (which could also be interpreted as discontent with the CS in general), there is poor tackling technique, losing at the point of attack, the injury to Dyson forcing Barrett into the starting role, and overall ineptitude of not creating better matchups for the personnel that is on the field. Right now, I say most of this needs to fall on the shoulders of the DC/CS, who is at the top of the food chain for the unit.
It's Mangini's fault and no one elses. He thinks he mini-Belichick but BB would never attempt to play a 3-4 with this roster. Belichick tailors the system to fit the players he has. Either get a real NT, or get back into a 4-3 that better suits the lilliputian defenders that you keep drafting.
most do, but when it comes down to it, as a player if you disagree with your coach's and theyre forcefeeding you a system you know your team would probably be better off without. it makes for a semi uninspired performance. this doesnt surprise me at all, Vilma can talk about how much he studies and is willing to adjust and feels more comfortable. But when it comes down to it he's thinking. "Im so much better in a 4-3" and things like that start to wear on a player. dont care who you are. even Ray Lewis criticized the 3-4 because he knew it didnt suit him as well as the 4-3. and this is all bigger than Vilma, players like Ellis and Robertson are better in a 4-3 also. not to mention it puts alot more responsibilities on your corners to be aware since if one LB misses a tackle the next person to touch the ball carrier is more than likely a DB. which makes me worry about Rhodes dissappearance so far this yr outside of the MIA INT. anyways im not saying anything most of you dont already agree with anyways. but somethings gotta give or i think mangini's honeymoon will be coming to an end soon if the defense continues to look amateur.
Originally Posted by MSUJet85 Our defensive talent is overrated from last year and needs an overhaul. Overrated by whom? The same guys who brought in Ramsey and Barlow last year, and haynes, mosley, schleigel, kimo, wadsworth, and collins?
Mangini is looking at the tape and grading every single player, do you think he isn't aware of the deficiencies?
yes. as a coach he shouldve known we were a team built for the 4-3. especially coming from a team that played us twice a year. moreso, alot of fans bought the whole "new defense every week, whatever it takes to win" BS. it was alot of 3-4 with 4-3 nickels on passing downs. pretty bland. moreso our 3-4 didnt look creative at all until we played teams like the colts and pats where essentially you know theyre going to put up points so you might as well try anything. thats the mentality we need. people can blame sutton all they want but at the end of the day its mangini's job thats on the line and the W's and L's go in a column by his name and no one elses. So if anyone thinks the D is all Suttons fault, I laugh. This is Mangini's team. If I'm a HC and my DC is making calls I disagree with, I tell him to do what I want. plain and simple. whatever were probably in for a long season anyways unless the team does a 180. at this rate, I dont think fans will want Mangini here by the time he gets all the players to make his 3-4 work. thats a strong possibility were facing here.
The bottom line is that we just don't have much talent on defense. If you look at the defensive lineman Ellis is way overpaid and is a solid 3-4 end, but he was horrible in his last year as a 4-3 end. Robertson is an average lineman, really aside from a few bright spots in the 4-3 has he ever really done anything to make people think he's a top of the line player? Pouha and Mosley are career backup players who probably wouldn't make most teams rosters. Coleman is a solid addition at end but he has no place in a 4-3. This defense badly needs a big Nose tackle. The linebackers are nothing to write home about. Vilma is useless without a true NT in front of him. Going back and watching the tape it seems that teams are running left at Hobson and Vilma and neither one is doing anything to stop the run. Neither of those guys have any ability to disengage from a blocker. I love Thomas personally, teams are really shying away from running at Ellis and Thomas. Harris is going to be a special player as well. But the weakside at linebacker right now is just awful. This team badly needs a big weakside linebacker who can rush the QB, demand double teams and blow up running plays. The secondary fortunately has Rhodes and Revis. Both of these guys have top of the line potential. Unfortunately when the front 7 can't stop the run or rush the qb your secondary is going have very long days. At this point I still don't think we know what have in Revis since no one can cover for more then a few seconds. I really like Eric Smith but I'm not sure he's completely healthy. Eric Coleman still makes way to many mistakes and is probably more suited as the third safety. The other cornerback spot is still a disaster. Dyson is banged up. Barrett couldn't cover me. I haven't seen much of Drew Coleman or Poteat. I think we all need to realize that rome wasn't built in a day. When teams transition to a 3-4 it takes a few seasons to really get the right players in place. In that time period the goal is to get the players to play with discipline, not give up big yardage plays and continue to learn the system. It is frustrating for everyone involved but the end result is usually an extremely effective defense. Look at the Chargers, Steelers, Cowboys, Patriots, all of those teams started somewhere with the 3-4 and eventually after multiple years they turned into elite defenses. In 2 years our defense will probably have some serious differences: LE: Ellis NT: Dominating two gapper. RE: Coleman (continue to draft 3-4 end type players to rotate) ROLB: draft pick (think Ware, Merriman type of player someone that demands a double team RILB: If they Jets are able to find a real nose tackle then Vilma stays. If not then there is the potential to trade Vilma and put a 250 pound linebacker in this spot. LILB: David Harris LOLB: Bryan Thomas LCB: Revis SS: Rhodes FS: Smith RCB: free agent signing, draft pick The tough part will be findind the nose tackle and pass rushing linebacker. And if Mangini really doesn't feel that Vilma can excel in the 3-4 then they will consider trading him. But I think a lot of people will jump off bridges if our defense still sucks and we trade vilma. The bottom line is that Mangini/Tannenbaum/Sutton know what they are doing so just be patient and suck it up.
These forums are like a broken record. Same things discussed, same points made, just sometime worded different and by different people. In no particular order: Chad / Clemens 3-4 / 4-3 O-line D-line Barret sucks Trade / Move Vilma We need a DT Play Harris more Can we still make the playoffs Revised season predictions etc..
all this talk, and no matter what is said on the forum, in the paper, on the TV.....the scheme is NOT going to switch. This is what Mangini run, thats all there is to it.
Why force yourself to read what you think is redundant? Indeed, if you read closely, you would have found something new here that Hutch broke in his column, that hasnt been discussed before. It may not be as interesting as losing $1200 and changing your avatar when Vinitera missed a kick, but it is about the Jets. :rofl:
Haha, yea that sucked. Anyway, I avoid most of the redundant threads. It's not really that hard actually. I check this forum on the off chance that the team makes some kind of move and for peoples opinions on up coming opponents...occasionaly a thread like this.
I don't really get it either. Everyone complains about too many threads being similar, but I'd like to know what they propose we talk about. Oh and god forbid we speculate. Because we're not fans or anything, everything we say the front office is reading.
