Mangold IS a Solid center already..... The draft in many eyes will probably hinge on Clemens.... Schlegel doesn't help things. Whenever you get a top NFL Qb, a draft has to be deemed a success..... So, my answer would be YES.... Brick needs to step up and Clemens has a ways to go.... Granted, I put a lot of blame on the FO this offseason that had another draft lined up with great OL prospects and they knew Kendall was a problem child already and they didn't get OL help for Brick and Mangold, let alone the QB's.
Great post. Not totally true though on the draft - There were concerns about Bricks run blocking and a few of us said we wanted no part of him..... I respect your right to give Brick another year or so for complete evaluation but, those of us who stated concerns before he was drafted also have the right to repeat or concerns after an offseason in which we wished he would make major strides.... And yeah, we all know the FO screwed the pooch on not getting OL help and Brick is in a tough spot..... Again, I'm not using the BUST word but, the fact that it's out there and he's closer to BUST than Pro Bowl is concerning.
I think the word DBUST threw people in a tizzy.... But, I'm usually with ya 100% and look forward to your insight and draft opinions.... I'm quoted over and over as saying Mario or Bust, I would have been willing to take way under mkt value to get out of that #4 pick..... Just didn't like paying Top LT money to a guy that has run blocking issues when we had decent LT play the year before. I believe it was Thunderbirdjet that stated it over and over as well that the Jets real need was a Run Mauling RIGHT TACKLE.... we needed BEEF!!!!!
D'Brick = D'Bust? it was a question, not a comment...????? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Look, like everyone else I am concerned (see CONCERNED) at his seeming lack of progress and improvement. There were concerns before the draft that he was maxxed out in size and could not handle big DE's. He's been a dissapointment, a major one so far. (Where did I blame him for anything?) I'm not writing him off yet (see, who said anything about writing him off, not me?), but if you think back we passed on Reggie Bush for him (I am glad we did, I wasn't a Bush guy) (those who said there was no guarantee on Bush are correct, but I'm saying I'm glad the Jets didn't trade up for him)...and we also could have had some other guys. At the time I was all for trading down, since I wasn't convinced about D'Brick. (This is the crux) No, I didn't want AJ Hawk of Matt Leinart either - the guy I wanted was the #12 overall pick who we played last week - Haloti Ngata - who went to Baltimore. 6-5 335 NT who could move. I've been unhappy with the NT play for the Jets for a long time, and he'd have been a real difference maker, and we probably could have traded down to get him. (Addresses who I wanted instead who was the Best Player Available and who would replace Roberston who I do think has been a dissapointment) Either way, Hawk would have been a better pick in retrospect, or or Culter. (who doesn't agree? That's a fair discussion...) If we had trade down, Kameron Wimbley was taken at #13 by Cleveland and Manny Lawson was also on the board - taken at #22 by SF. There's two possible DE pass rushers - something we still lack. Darryn Colledge who is starting at T for the Packers went #47 in the 2nd round, and Marcus McNeil who is a pro bowler at RT went #50 to SD. So far the pick of D'Brick is dissapointing to say the least... (so, if you re-read my initial post with comments, hopefully you get the right idea and don't misquote or paint this thread of my post incorrectly) gg
Here's where many are disagreeing w/ you... If you watch D brick closely, he has NOT been much of a dissapointment. Aside from acouple plays he has improved drastically from last year. Unfortunately one play against Balty and one play against the Pats is totally overshadowing his performance. Last year he struggled w/ technique, strength and weight, commonly recieving help from Te's and RB's. This year, he has recieved quite minimal help, has drastically improved his technique and has been pretty good in pass protection. Say what you will about him not being physical...it is true he'll never be a great run blocker. But what he is on his way to being is a top notch pass protector capable of shutting down ANY speed rusher. That's a pretty good investment. As for trading down and taking Ngota... For one there were ALOT of questions about his motor, technique and explosion. He has ended up being a pleasant surprise. Secondly he's playing nose in a 4-3 type scheme..perhaps the jets questions his ability to play the 3-4 type scheme. Hindsight is def. 20/20...and I too had my reservations about Brick. But the way that draft played out...we were virtually in "no man's land" at 4. brick was the last of the elite prospects left, we couldnt find a trade down partner and he filled a huge need. Patience needs to be given. I've watched him very closely through 2 games..and he has drastically improved over last season and is WELL on his way
Don't attack a player and call him a bust when you can't even understand the X's and O's behind the plays you're using to call him a bust. A good argument requires legitimate evidence, so if you want to call himout, know his job and explain how he failed to do it, and to call him a bust, you need a shitload of examples. All you see is a sack come from the left and autoatically assume it was Brick's fault. Have you watched that play from the left side? Watch it, then tell me what Left tackle can block Jarvis Green, a 285lb power-rushing DE (the kind we know Brick has trouble with) and Roosevelt Colvin, a blitzing 250lb linebacker at the same time on the same play. You sound like Miss South Carolina on this one! And by the way, I do not have a PhD in football, but I played enough to understand blocking schemes a little bit. There are guys on this site that can go WAY deeper than me on this, but have probably had the common sense to avoid this ridiculous argument.
I don't like hearing that to be honest. Are there top LTs in the league that pass block exceptionally well and run block rather poorly?
Kurt, this post makes more sense relating to what I said. It's ok to disagree about what you feel his performance is...that's cool. I disagree that he'll be a good investment, if he's not going to be a pro bowl caliber player we should not have picked him so high in the draft. Hinsight is 20/20 - but it's worth IMO looking back and learning from what we've done well and done wrong.
Levi Jones is a good example. He may not be elite, but he's pretty solid. I think Brick will end up a much better player than him though.
So this is a glaring flaw with the Jets and their blocking scheme, damn those Jets coaches. We need to hire the Pats o-line coach cause they let no one in or steal signals In any case I reserve the right to my opinion, and from the games I watch, I see more bad than good from him currently. This is not the first thread to attack him, there was one right after the Pats game. Sucks us uneducated fans can't appreciate his brilliant play so far.
If you refuse to understand how the game works, and act as if one play represents a player's overall performance, then your opinion is worthless. I don't care if someone disagrees, but the least they can do is make a valid argument about the issue. If your point is that he hasn't yet met your expectations, fair enough, but if this is the case then your expectations are a result of your lack of understanding.
I don't love D'Brickshaw Ferguson, but the guy was widely regarded as the best offensive tackle available. Marcus McNeill had a litany of weight related issues and coupling that with SPINAL STENOSIS(I'm thinking this guy probably lasts another five years)was a risk to say the last. Drafting guys like that and crossing your fingers is not a wise strategy if you wish to be a general manager in the NFL. Granted, you can learn from your mistakes, but you can't project what these guys are actually going to do when they get to this level. D'Brick had the best combination of skill and athleticism available and you can't teach that sort of thing. The reality of the situation is that the body of work is too small for us to judge any of these players. Cutler? I still don't get the love affair there. Same big arm, same questionable decision making. Shanahan once made Brian Griese look like a star. I think I'm more sold on Clemens. Lawson has done basically nothing. Colledge seems to be in the best situation, and I'd love to steal Green Bay's offensive line coach. Those guys all seem to dominate. Haloti Ngata was considered lazy by everyone and a reach at the time. You can go on and on. Fact of the matter is, you can take chances on guys in the draft but when you have a guy who has the physical potential and achievement you can't pass on him for someone who might be good "if," especially when you're the Lam Jones/Browning Nagle/etc, etc. Jets. -X-
As far as run blocking I really don't think that's even an issue at this point. The NFL has set the rules to favor the passing game. If DBrick turns into a solid pass blocking LT who can shut down the blind side edge rushers he will be well worth the investment. We can't always depend on quick drops and 5 yard passes with YAC. If you want to have an O that can go down field and open things up you need to be able to pass block and let plays develop. We saw a glimpse of that last Sunday and I was pretty excited to see that. Once we establish the fact that we can go down field the running game will open up as if by magic.
Good Points!!! And I think a lot of us want to see an offense that can go down the field again and are just a bit flustrated.
Man it must suck for all the haters to see him playing strong today eh? But I guess even a bust can get lucky sometimes....
D'Brick is in a tough situation because if he doesn't turn out to be a perenial pro bowler in a couple of years he will in many people's eyes be a dissapointment. He was part of one of the deepest, most talented drafts of all time. Numerous teams were able to almost completley rebuild through that draft alone. Most drafts are hit or miss...but very few teams missed in that draft. It would be very dissapointing to be one of those few teams.
I happen to like DBrick so far but Miami looked awful today, this win should only convince any Jets fan that this team has a long way to go to be a solid contender.
