i think we keep hobson, kassell as a backup, barton will be let go, because of his age, and vilma if he cant be effective in the 3-4 will be trade bait, hate to say it but trade bait.
Yeah, like no kidding but Mangini is too obstinate to change. He envisions the 3-4 to be the way to go so the Jets will keep playing it whether or not they have the right players on the line or behind them to do so. He will eventually lose his job because of it too.
our team was built for the 4-3 its perfect for the 4-3, i like the 3-4 but we need the right personnel for this one. and we are 2 players short for a 3-4.
The other thing that's a little bit disquieting is that we've been acquiring 3-4 players to fit in with our 4-3 players. That makes it fairly likely that we'll get stuck in between with not enough players that can play well in either system and kind of fumbling along. That's where we were last year. The Jets really need to make a commitment one way or the other with players that fit the system. the NFL is not a place to mix and match with poor fits.
Don, that's insane, man. Given, the JETS defense last year, still suited and built for the 4-3, was a bit shaky, but they are transforming their picks to fit the 3-4. Tannenbaum has been stacking up picks for the outside corners (DE's) and has concentrated a lot on the 2nd and 3rd level defenders to fly around the field. Harris, like others have said, is a prime example of the transformation. By next year, I believe, our picks / trades / free agent signings will greatly effect the 3-4 scheme in a positive way. I'm a Vilma lover as much as anyone else that bleeds Green & White, but if our run defense is going to suffer because he's too small to shed 270+ guards, then so be it. Mangini isn't going anywhere for a long time (thank God) and neither is the 3-4.
Knowing how secretive Mangini is I doubt this defense is showing everything it has and all its blitz's in preseason.
That's true as well...the offense AND the defense we've seen thus far in the pre-season will look like different coordinator's were hired by Week 1.
c'mon man, without question he's going to be a shut down corner? you guys are ridiculous with the shut down corner crap. Champ Baily is the only guy in the NFL right now that's a shut down corner. How can you be sooo sure a rookie that never played a down is going to be that good? Let's be real here. Obviously that's what we all are hoping for, but the probability of it happening is low based on how many shut down corners there actually are in the NFL.
I think they've made a commitment to 3-4 for systemical reasons, not personnel reasons. Mangini is bright enough to mix in whatever he thinks will help.
I hear you that we are not done getting players that will perform better in this system, but right now, we don't have them. What we do have, as Br4dw4y says, is a mismosh of 3-4 and 4-3 players, and I think the better players we have, right now, are more suited to a 4-3. I just don't know why you wouldn't at least mix in some more 4-3 schemes to take advantage of that until you get the 3-4 players that you need to truly play a 3-4. Like I said, a great coach find a way to put his best players in a position where they can be most effective. I'm just not sure Mangini's doing that right now.
Mangini is not doing that, I'd have to agree. If your talking about all time rare talents I would agree a coach has to find a way to use them right. Not above average players. Vilam is a good 4-3 MLB. He is not a make or break kind of all time talent that you would restructure your defense around. If he cannot adjust to the 3-4 by the end of this year, its time to start looking into what he will bring in a trade.
What I thought the idea when mangini was brought in, was to have a true hybrid defense. What that entailed was a mix of 4-3, 3-4 and unique fronts. Within that concept Vilma, D rob, BT, and Barton are all good players b/c they all have good speed and are smart. Speed and smarts fuel all versatility on defense. Unfortunately, last year we settled into a primarily 3-4 look. I thought D rob played well and adjusted, however, aside from being a field general and pass coverage, Vilma was shakie in run support. The reality is, if we are playing 3-4 and nothing else, Vilma is not worth the high price tag and the liability in the running game. TC showed alot of different defensive looks. Just as many 4-3 as 3-4, in fact. If that is the case, Vilma and Co. are good fits... However, if we are playing mainly a 3-4....the end of this coming season, maybe time to start shopping vilma around for some draft picks.
I hope we see more of that in the regular season as well. We sure didn't see it in the preseason (so far), but that means nothing, as they don't gameplan for these games. Right now, the defense just looks shaky.
The disconnect is that they have not moved hard to get rid of the 4-3 talent (Vilma, D-Rob, Ellis and Hobson primarily) in exchange for 3-4 talent before the 4-3 talents value evaporates. Vilma is not worth as much today in trade as he would have been in training camp last year. He won't be worth as much next season as he is now. His value is depreciating at a very rapid pace as he conclusively proves that he does not fit in this scheme. D-Rob is the same story. Ellis probably was not worth a whole lot last year after his down season and he may be close to valueless at the end of this year with a 3rd straight subpar season. You want to switch to a 3-4? Then make the moves that are required to do that. The Jets aren't exactly swimming in talent and value and to watch a huge part of that depreciate through being used out of context is very depressing.
You have good points, however I think you are over-dramatizing things alittle too much. We've discussed D rob at great length. Many, including the CS believe he had a very good 2nd half of the season, and provides a unique fit for the position. W/ the scarcity of NT's usually available on the open market...we can do a helluva lot worse. Vilma, you may have a point. Sure he's an outstanding leader, and is a top 3 coverage lb...and sure he can be subbed for in obvious rushing situations..but for his salary and value...we'd be better off trading him. Again..it will all depend on if we're a base 3-4...or a base hybrid. Yes, we lack some 3-4 personel, but typically 3-4 personel is difficult to fill. It's gonna take some time...and personally I think we'd be better off being completely hyrbid.
With four lbs eventually becoming free agents in hobson, kassell, barton, and vilma, it is easy to see that we cannot sign all of them. It seems like we are settled on the other defensive positions but i think drob's contract is almost up and he will command heavy dollars as he has already been making close to 10mill a year. Based upon the effectiveness of Tannenbaum and Mangini to maneuver and deal a disgruntled Pete Kendall for a 4th/5th and their track record since they took over, I am really looking forward to next offseason! They will be likely gearing up for a nice free agent signing (lb, ol, dl) and will have already targetted the top college players at these positions. We don't have that far to go to have a stacked defense and the offense is 2 lineman away from being set for a while. I'm not saying that they won't do really well this year, but as former posters have said (Hobson) it is not fair to compare this Jets team on paper to the Patriots. After next years draft, that may not be the case anymore.
It was a compliment towards you... That's a pretty bold statement right there IMO.. When I think "Shutdown Corner" I think of Champ, Sanders, Ty Law to certain extent.. I can't provide any insight because we haven't seen him play in the NFL as of yet.. I'll get back to you though..
