He sat for 2000 and 2001 and started the 5th game of the 2002 season. And he took forever to get in the lineup for a 1st round QB, most of them are starting halfway through their 2nd season at the latest. Clemens is a 2nd round guy so maybe he waits until 2008 game 5, but I doubt it. I think he's in there as soon as Chad and the Jets hit a rough patch this season. I think Chad is playing for his job in every game next year and a win just gets him a pass if he loses the next week. If the Jets hit any kind of rough patch he's gonna get yanked. Think about what Mangini said last year: he decides who the starters are in practice each week.
clemens is like our bollywood, great potential, thats stretching it, but will never start in the nfl.
greenscreen yes, my opinion would be the same in your scenario..... we have all seen the ceiling with pennington and the entire team around him needs to be highly functioning for that ceiling to occur. the jets are still building and we have LESS experienced talent on both offense and defense than we did in 2002, when pennington exceled. IMO, however, the team has more younger talent than 2002 which should bode very well for the next 3-4 years. it will be time for the jets to get some fresh blood at QB for several reasons.....salary cap, future draft and free agent preparations, and most of all to fill the QB position with better overall talent. Is Clemens that guy? Who the hell knows but you cannot wait 3 yrs before finding out in this day and age. Go ask Shanahan in Denver how long he wanted to wait with plummer and cutler. If one of the NY teams did that they would be burned at the stake. Now he knows he has his QB for the next denver run. i know my comments on CP will not sit well with most people here but think of it like this....a healthy and effective pennington gets you a wild card or even a divisional round appearance...a better QB, whomever that may be, will likely get you further along with all other factors remaining in place (coaches, schemes, etc etc). and if the jets repeat the "success" of last year with a healthy CP reaching a WC game so be it - i still make the change in 08 - the only t hing that would sway me to keep CP indefinitely would be a tough divional round loss with CP playing like a january QB - no turnovers, no ducks, and making the tough 3rd down throws. best, jil
We need a QB that comes in a complete package. Run/Gun and Mng. The game. I don't know about KC. M.tuiawhatever will prob. Always be a 2nd.3rd string. But with what we got. CP is our best chance for now. As for the future? Time will tell.
Clemens has to show me something before I start contemplating anointing him with the starter role. To date I basically have seen nothing. I will be looking extra hard at him in pre-season this year. I will have a much better idea about him then based on how he performs.
With regard to when Chad Pennington started. I believe we had an ancient Vinnie T. running the show at the time. We started off very poorly and Chad got the nod. Fortunately he came in and was successful in a an offense run by OC who? This is a little different. Chad is still a viable QB with several good years left in him him, yet. The only thing that will cut that short is if he re-injures the shoulder again. He may go down with something else, and then Clemens would get his chance, maybe for only a 3 or 4 game stint depending on the severity of whatever happened to Chad. You just never know. I really am still waitng to see if Clemens possesses the goods.
I don't know what team you guys are watching, but it seems to me that the Jets are and have always been very high on Kellen. People seem to conveniently forget that Kellen played at least as well as Chad in preseason last year and came very close to getting the starting nod. His mop up duty was in 2 games where our line was beaten and are not really reflective of his capability. Mangini consistently came short of annointing Chad as the long term starter, and has only said that Chad is the starter going into training camp next year, which is a long way from sating he is next years starter which many heard. We released Ramsey, did not pick Quinn, and got Tui as 3rd string. Clemens is also a Brees clone, the exact type of QB that has excelled in the SD/KC type offensive scheme. Aside form the facetious, "Chad wins games" argument, Chad really handicaps the team in a lot of ways, especially the ability to catch up in a game or run the 2 minute drill. His lack of velocity has really hurt our red zone conversion rate. No one is going to convince anyone else of their opinion on this most devisive of topics, but I firmly believe that all the evidence is there that Chad will be our starting QB, at most, one more year. If he has as good a preseason as Chad I think he will be our starting QB. I just do not feel that Mangini is really confident in Chad long term at all. Kellen is our future.
I'll agree to an extent, but have to disagree on the red zone comment. When we still had a running game, Chad was praised league wide for his red zone effectiveness. Once our o-line got old overnight and Curtis went down is when Chad became a liability in the red zone. It's not fair to put that all on him. We have an offense with undersized WR's and don't utilize the TE. With Thomas Jones we'll at least be a threat to run it in, which will allow Chad to playaction. Something to which he is only maybe second to in the league to Peyton Manning. People forget that so quickly.
While I agree that KC is our future, I have to disagree with your assessment of last year's training camp. From what I remeber, Chad clearly performed better than both PR and KC. I also remeber that it was just a matter of time before Mangini announced him as our starter becasue he outperformed the other QB's in both practices and preseason work. If it was so close between Chad and Kellen, why was Kellen the third QB?
because he is a rookie. rookie QBs usually dont back up the starting QBs (see jason campbell and the redskins in 05 or 06)
Actually i attended quite a few practices and truthfully I thought CP was the worst of the 3 QB's. Ramsey never stood a chance in NY b/c the local media and Jet fans hated him before he ever arrived. He actually did not perform that badly in TC. As for KC, he started off great and I actually believed he would end up the week 1 starter. Unfortunately as more of the offense was employed in practice...his field awareness slipped and he started trying to force things. That's when he hit the wall. which BTW is quite common for rookie QB's in the NFL. I also thought he looked great in the preseason... Either way I think people are passing judgement way too early on the guy, and it's due to the perception of over emphasis/demand for instant stardom from the QB position, especially in NY. 9/10 young QB's need time to develop. And you can't make judgements on the overall success they may or may not have early, b/c there are alot of underlying factors that can dillute things.We just don't have all the info to make any passing judgements on his overall long term fit in the franchise. The few things we can look for are the following... 1. Does he have proper mechanics?- All signs point to yes based on what we've seen. He certainly has very good foot work and a quick release, IMO. 2. Does he have quality physical talent? All signs point to a guy w/ above average throwing power, accuracy and mobility 3. Does he have the Intangibles/awareness to learn the offense, stay dedicated and work on defencieies? He wouldnt have been brought in w/ this CS unless that were the case. CP was high on his attention to detail in the classroom, and the strides he made throughout the season, as was the CS. All 3 of those things check out. Everything after that is based on the CS grooming him correctly, him staying on track developmentally and health wise, and of course the surrounding talent he will ultimately have when he finally plays.
The Chad that played with Martin had a better arm than Chad does now, and it makes a difference. Only in the first game of the season did Chad show any zip on his ball. After that, his already suspect arm was even worse.
That's just simply not true. In fact, if Kellen had lit it up on the third game he may have been the starter. Also, the third string thing has nothing to do with his actual spot on the depth chart. It was done mainly to protect Kellen, and insure that he was brought into games in a controlled manner.
The Jets have passed on Cutler, Leinart and Quin. Chad has a major roster bonus due if he isn't cut before June 08. If Clemens isn't the starter by the end of this year Chad is the guy for the next few years. Ultimately Tannenbaum and Mangini are going to be judged on staying with Chad or the drafting of Clemens. If Arizona, Cleveland or Denver win a SB with one of those guys and we don't they will be run out of town in a few years.
Superb point. Chad's play action will be vastly rejuvinated this year with TJ in the backfield. We must also not forget that Leon will make a very significant contribution as well.
That doesn;t make any sense though. You are playing to win football games. Why would you put a guy who, as you say, outperformed the starter or the backup at third string? If he perfored in training camp and preseason so well, why not put him as the backup? You say in one sentence that he would have beent he starter had he lit it up in the third preseason game, and then you say that he needs to be brought into games in a controlled manner. I personnally have tons of confidence in Chad and believe he can take us to the show. I think KC will back him up for the next 2 years.
I think it's pretty clear that Mangini plays the players who preform the best. Why is it so hard to understand that if Chad is the starter he gives us the best chance to win?
Why will it? Martin couldn't run before he got hurt in 05, Blaylock, Houston and Barlow couldn't run last year, what makes any one think TJ in the backfield is going to be able to run with our OL?
