Thanks - I love it. The problem is Shaughnessy is a known nemesis of 'Billy Boy' and thus will carry little weight up here in Boston, but he articulates the issue extremely well and is right on the money. The rest of the media in Boston are absolute kiss as*ers. That's what 3 SBs gets you- unquestioned love.
the people writing in this thread better not be the same ones writing in the "keyshawn available" thread
one team can mantain a certain personality that has helped them win 3 superbowls, but like everything nothing lasts. players leave new players come in with diffrent styles they cant shake, players wanting more money, it happens to all teams, BB did a good job brainwashing them, but with the new faces it wouldnt work because it would be like repeating to the ears of the vets. this is my opinion ofcourse.
Perception has nothing to do with it. The Pats are violating the code that has made them what they are. Now they are slowly becoming something else. Whether or not they are successful in this new aspect remains to be seen, but it's a philosophy that has been hit-or-miss for most other teams that have tried it. Of course the guys you mentioned are going to get their due accollades, what has happened in the past can't be changed. The question is whether or not more Pats names will be added to that list is the question that is unanswered. Will they succeed?
Good Point, but I do see perception is the issue.. What code are you reffering too? Does anyone really and truly know what the Patriot's "Philosophy" is? The Pats have brought in these so called "character issue" guys in for years.. I.E.. Corey Dillon, Donald Hayes, Rodney Harrison, Steve Martin (Remember Him?? He used to run his mouth to the press more than bill would care for.. haha.. gets cut in a flash..lol) Doug Gabriel..etc.. Some names that weren't top flite players as well, but there have been numerous.. Yes, you are right.. It remains to be seen with this current crop.. It's a question we won't be able to answer until, well who knows?? We will def see week#1 how this puzzle will be solved..
I don't think you can even put guys like Harrison and Dillon in the same sentence as Moss. I don't see it as a character issue in terms of Randy being a troublemaker, getting arrested, etc. The guy's ego is the problem, and his maturity - which BTW has not improved since the day he was drafted. Harrison, he's a tough guy on the field, but he has always been a leader for the team he has been on. Dillon - there were rumors that he was milking injuries in his final season with the Bengals, but the guy just couldn't stand Cincinnati anymore. He had professed his loyalty to that organization earlier and they simply refused to make themselves better. Moss is a different animal. He has all of the talent of any wideout in the league, and he knows it. Not an ounce of humility, once you get down to it. He's going to want the ball a lot, and I see that being a problem down the road once he realizes how Tom Brady remains effective year-in and year-out. He's unpredictable because he gets the ball to the open receiver, and Randy lives life in the Land of Triple Coverage. As far as code/philosophy, I think it is less defined than a lot of people want to believe, but the standard has been that there are no acceptable egos overpowering the lockerroom. Even Brady maintains a somewhat reserved persona. The lockerroom is what keeps that team in order, and that's the way Belichick likes it. Now they have a peacock that can't get enough press, loves to deify himself, and knows exactly how many balls are coming in his direction every week. Randy Moss just flies in the face of everything I see making the Patriots so special over the past 6-7 years. To me, anyway. And I can't say that he is an all-that-unwelcome addition to the Patriots, as far as I'm concerned. I'll hate the production he brings, but not the personality. Randy Moss loves Randy Moss more than he loves football.
I see where your coming from.. But as of right now according to what I've read in the papers online..etc.. The players that were asked the "Moss" questions.. Randy has a clean slate with them.. Hopefully it lasts forever and ever... haha.. I'm so naive..
The reason character is an issue in pro sports today has very little to do with winning and losing, it's about money. The fine line between being a great player and embarrassing sponsors is really what "character" is about as far as the leagues are concerned. Bill Belichek's first taste of winning football revolved around the single greatest defensive player in football who was as big a slime ball as ever played in the league, LT. He was pampered, had special rules and every one looked the other way as he brought that team 2 SB. The greatest player to ever wear the Jets uniform was an alcoholic, womanizer and gambler who showed up at games after partying all night. In almost every field the great, the creative are often wired differently than the rest of us and are very often misfits in society. Great athletes are even worse because outside of football almost nothing has been demanded of these players throughout their adolescence and young adult lives other than showing up, working out and performing. The sign of a great coach is being able to have a core of players that can accept and incorporate the greats with all their issues into the team. You can sit on the outside and throw stones but the proof will be in the results and it's all just speculation. Look at our team, Coles is probably the most gifted player we have, he is also clearly a troubled man who will always be on the edge. Our problem is we don?t have enough players like Coles. This is what a great coaching staff gets paid for, handling talent with all of its hidden issues.
You bet it's about the money. You think LT would've been showing up to games all wired up if he had to show up to piss tests with a red-hot poker of clean urine shot up his touch hole with a catheter? You think teams wouldn't weigh heavily on Joe Willie in today's NFL? It's a different league now, with the athletes being measured in centimeters instead of yards. Higher pressure for higher levels of performance, with less of a tolerance for failure. It's a billion dollar industry now, not just an American sport. But with Moss, I don't see hidden issues. He brings them all to the forefront, because that is who he is. And certainly the results will bear the fruit of the risk. We'll always be in trouble as long as Randy Moss wears a Patriots uniform, however, Randy Moss himself seems to dictate how much trouble he will provide to the opponent. And his own team, many times.
Pretty much agree and understand with your point. But you really think the Pats take the moral high ground like that? Because I don't see it.
Their formula has been to NOT go after high priced guys and low charcter guys. Occasionally they will take in a questionable charcter guy(Dillon) or spen a little more for a player(Colvin) but never have they built their entire offseason around high priced guys(overpaying for many) and low charcter guys(including their top draft pick). They are in desperation mode, trying to recapture the dynasty years. They have more talent than they have had in a while but this team will not be better. NE WAS the model franchise, they WERE the best TEAM but now they are just a collection of overpaid, low character guys who will be looking to collect a check. As long as #12 is playing they'll always be good but I don't think thye will see another SB w/ the current makeup of the team.
I don't agree with the bolded part at all. The Pats are still playing with a core of players that were around from the start of their success in 01. They have seen core players come and go but they always replace them well, which is why they are so successful, even if they haven't won a Lombardi for a couple of seasons. But if they keep straying from their winning formula, it may not be so far from the mark not too long from now...
Think abotu Dennis Rodman on the Bulls. Total problem player, total me-first, ego player, but Jackson and that Jordan guy kept him in line. Does that mean that the Bulls were sacrificing any standards to win? No, it means they understood how to deal with a player like that and make him conform to their standards rather than being dragged down by his. Same thing with Randy. I don't think the Patriots lowered any standards to get him, I think they raised his by bringing him in.
Hey people will u please wake up It funny to sit here and read people on here dog the Pats because who they picked up. They went against there stanards....lol PLEASE when they could win with these players "with standards" that was great they got there cake and eat it 2 BUT this game is ALL ABOUT WINNING and the Pats proved that this offseason and if u not winning anymore with those type of players it's time to move on to players that can help win more SB. I know it hard to see the Pats inprove so much while we do very little but the Pats want to win. Now let hope Eric takes that from his former bosses. IT ALL ABOUT WINNING SUPERBOWLS.....PERIOD
Their core is getting old, again they'll be good as long as #12 is around but I don't think they are better than last year. More talented absolutely but better? nope. rodman was ONE player, the pats have brought in multiple bad apples this offseason. One player is usually not a problem but when you start to see 2,3,4,5,... then problems can occur. They brought in 2 FAs that have either been suspended recently for drugs or are on the watchlist, they drafted a player that has a long rap sheet, they brought in Moss. This wasn't a case of a Corey Dillon coming in for 2003 when the team was near their peak and had a ton of leaders. Now the dynasty players are leaving one by one, they don't have the same leadership or skill from the core guys.
