I don't think any of us care where production comes from, but we already have some good production from Conk, which I expect to further improve with Rodgers and good OL. Ruckert was a 3d round pick, who showed some flashes of good play and should finally get an opportunity to be main back-up. Drafting Bowers basically wastes that 3d round pick too on top of the fact he may not even be better at all than Conk. And I don't want to spent good draft assets (10th overall, plus a 3d round pick which would then have been wasted on Ruckert) for someone who is very far from certain to be next great TE. So, while we don't care where productions comes from, it seems that trying to force a potential marginal improvement at TE (if any at all) might actually reduce what that production could have been as compared to drafting a really good WR, who will drastically upgrade Lazard/Gipson or OL, which could keep Rodgers upright when inevitably Smith or AVT go down, and allow us to have a good QB to get that good production.
True…they benefitted from a quick passing game and a great QB, and let’s not overlook the fact that Brady, as a transcendent all time great QB, got a TON of benefits from the refs protecting him. That Pats OL held more than any other fucking team, and blatantly too, and was hardly ever called for Holding. And yup, that was proven out whenever one of their linemen went to another team as a free agent…none of them had the same production or success that they had at NE. The same shit happens now for the Chiefs. Shit, in our game, the refs let that fucking line hold for 30 fucking seconds. Brutal
You’re thinking too short term though. Getting Bowers isn’t a one year term. We get him for 5 if it pans out and I’d think it’s likely Ruckert isn’t going to be an anything more than a backup special teams tightend. Ruckert felt like had too many penalties for a guy who barely plays, and had 16 catches. Not sure I’d say that indicates he was flashing.
The long term point applies to other positions as well though, and these positions (OT, WR) are more premium. It's both short term AND long term where we benefit in drafting OL or WR. In fact, TE is the least paid position. A good replacement value can easily be had for less that that of OL or WR. We could just extend Conk, who is not old, or Ruckert can blossom too when finally given a chance. So, the point is even more applicable longer term to WR and OT. Basically Bowers does not make sense short term nor long term compared to Latham, Olu, Nabers, Odunze, Thomas, etc... Unless we are certain he is a guarantee to be a Kittle, which I am just not sure he is.
If Ruckert is any good that’s awesome to have with Bowers. 2TE offenses are bad ass especially with a good running back Maybe you remember a team that used to kick our asses twice every season with an awesome TE/murderer and another awesome TE/goofball at the same time.
Yah…no one is saying Bowers isn’t a good player, nor that he would be a good addition both for this year and the future. To me, the argument is basically one of need…I strongly feel we have an immediate and dire need at OT and at WR both…whereas I feel that we are pretty good at TE. Is Bowers a huge improvement over Conklin/Ruckert? Maybe…probably? But that gap is not as huge as an improvement at OT or WR would be. To my mind. The OT is a bit different because we do now have two solid guys there, but the injury history indicates that this WILL most likely be a need THIS year. So to me, I’d not even think twice about going OT/WR over TE. To me it’s a no brainer. For THIS team, TE does not feel like the right move here.
If Ruckert is really good, we already have two really good TEs in Conk and Ruckert. Would be nice to also have a long term young OT or a starter upgrade over Gipson at WR, not just good TEs.
"Really good" is extremely subjective, especially for someone who is all about analytics. How does Michael Nania feel on the subject?
I didn't say Ruckert was really good already. I said he was promising and I want to see him get a chance this year, since drafting Bowers would not just cost a 1st rounder, but also piss away the 3d we spent on Ruckert, on whom the jury is still out. I was responding to a post by @BrowningNagle, which said "If Ruckert is any good that’s awesome to have with Bowers. 2TE offenses are bad ass..." To that I said IF he is good, then we have 2 good TEs already, since Conk is very good. You missed an "IF" on that one. But since you mentioned Nania, here is Nania's take on drafting Bowers: https://jetsxfactor.com/2024/04/05/ny-jets-brock-bowers-red-flag/ This article was just posted today, but I have been saying something similar for a while now: "...Bowers’ hands are average at best. He is disappointing in contested catch situations, does not track the ball as well as you’d like, and is prone to some drops. He also had two fumbles in 2023. These parts of his game will be emphasized much further in the NFL than they were in a college offense where half of his catches were freebies. If Bowers does not squash the concerns about his hands, he will be much less dangerous in the NFL than he was at Georgia. Again, don’t count me as anti-Bowers – I simply don’t see him as the wisest choice for the Jets at No. 10. There are red flags in his profile that lead me to believe he will not become the elite weapon he is often billed as, causing the Jets to miss out on a prospect who would have had a much greater impact."
Nania is a fool. If he stays healthy Bowers is going to make a big difference for any offense he goes to. — I also think your take that a Bowers selection means a wasted pick on Ruckert is wrong. Setting aside that teams can actually play 2 TEs at once, it is legal, shocking I know! If they draft a lineman are we going to say it essentially cost us 2 4ths as well too cause they took Warren last year and traded for Moses this year? Joe Alt cost us a 1st and 2 4ths? lol no that would be a bad take
Conklin is as avg as it gets. Good blocker, avg receiver. We’re talking about a guy who backed up Uzomah, and Uzomah wasn’t very good either. Ruckert is pretty much a younger Conklin. I think we overvalue Ruckert because he’s a local guy. At the moment we are extremely suspect at TE. Bowers changes that.
I feel like there's a lot of overthinking going on with Bowers. You just watch him play and it's immediately obvious he's very good at football.
I don't think think anyone said he ISN'T good at football. That doesn't mean he is a good pick at 10 given positional value and the needs and strength areas of the team, plus other players who are good at football that will be available. Where I see some overthinking perhaps is that people are saying he is can be looked at as a WR, not just a TE, even though he was in fact a TE all College career. Other than that I think majority of people feel he is a really good TE prospect, and the debate is whether or not we should pick him at 10, given positional value, needs, potential, etc.., which is a valid conversation to have.
I get it and I agree 100%, Rodgers needs to stay healthy and protected at all cost in order to make the biggest impact for Jets. He was injured because Jets couldn’t protect him not because he did not have an elite receiver to throw to. Best talent on board at 10 should be drafted, if an all pro LT and all pro TE are on the board when Jets draft, they need to take the LT because he will be giving team the most value by what he accomplishes. Keeping their franchise QB healthy.
I've seen plenty of people saying he's not even likely to be good. "Highly drafted TEs don't work." "All the good TEs were taken in the later rounds." Bowers would basically be Aaron Hernandez for us (aside from the whole killing people thing). He's just a weapon. He can act as a situational RB, TE, and WR. The only truly compelling argument against taking him is that we wouldn't use him creatively enough for it to be worth it.
That is a compelling argument, and an indictment of our OC and HR However, to me, the MORE compelling argument is that we NEED an OT way more than we need a TE. Smith WILL miss time this year. Bank on it. We hope it’s only 2-3 games, but it could just as easily be more. So an OT would help alleviate that risk, which to me, is a bigger risk than that of not having good enough TE play with the guys we already have. PLUS, Smith and I think Moses are only on the roster this year…not that we couldn’t extend them, but the OT will almost certainly help THIS year, AND be a foundational piece for the future. It’s such a no brainer to me…build the fucking team from the trenches, like JD said he would do. Too many TE’s do not live up to their college hype. Look at Pitts…he was very highly rated and went what, top five? But he hasn’t transformed that team…we have better QB play than the Falcons have had IF Rodgers can stay healthy, so not really apples to apples, but the key point there is to keep Rodgers healthy. JD needs to fix this OL once and for all. Don’t overthink this. Don’t get slobbery over the shiny object. Just do the sound foundational thing and build a damn fucking OL.
I think he will be good, just it's not a guarantee he will be this next great TE. There are some red flags outlined earlier, like in most prospects. People are making it sound he is a slam dunk prospect. He is not. You said he could be Hernandez, but then we can take a WR who could be Davonte Adams/Chase or a OT like Sewel/Darrisaw. I would much rather have these types of players than a Hernandez on top of Conk and Ruckert we already have.
