It's just a low IQ play and a head scratcher is why I'm even harping on it. It's a screen. By the time you're done running around for 30 yards you are going to have an illegal man down field (which happened). Just throw the ball in the dirt and move on.
I agree that Zach has the athleticism to "pull a rabbit out of his ass", I just disagree that he should attempt to do so on a screen pass. On a normal 3-5-7 step drop? Absolutely. I'm all for Zach scrambling, within reason, and trying to make something happen but not when there's 2-3 DL in your face due to the play design.
I'm starting to feel like we are referencing two completely different plays. I hope we are at least. That's 1.3 seconds after Wilson gets the snap. Three men are already moving to set up the screen. Within a second from that point McGovern is beyond the line of scrimmage which would have made any forward pass illegal. So what you're suggesting is that by this point... 1.3 seconds after the snap... Zach should have recognized the play was blown up, turned his head, found Wilson and gotten the ball to him while backpedaling? Come on man. That's just absurdity.
No, you are 100% spot on with this. See my last post. Also there's a reason literally no one else is saying Zach should have gotten the ball to a receiver. Because that wasn't an option.
I just assumed that you were backing your belief based on something you had previously seen in action. I agree that it was a weird play where the only obvious person who looked like they were setting up a screen was McGovern but that could've been part of the play design as he was the only person on the OL who was uncovered when the ball was snapped. I know our OL isn't great but there's no way they just let 3-4 DL get to Zach essentially untouched on a normal play. I guess my point was I wouldn't even expect Tom Brady to do what you have been describing, so I can't be overly critical of Zach for not throwing the ball to GW or Cobb, even though they were open. As I've said though, it was a bad play by Zach, so at least on that we can agree.
Question: If a OL goes beyond the LOS but then returns before the ball is thrown, does that remove the infraction?
For sure. I didn't even notice how messed up it was until last night when I saw the Manning clip of the play here and looked at it a few times to see how it all went down. I ended up watching it all develop (or not) frame by frame and each time something else popped up.
If Milano went inside and Carter got the ball there would have been room to run. I don’t think the play was executed poorly I think Milano destroyed it.
For sure, a ton of credit to Milano because he diagnosed it and blew it up within a couple of seconds. That's what I was trying to get at with the post you replied to. Because McGovern was the only one not covered up at the snap, it's my belief that's why he's the only one who is clearly trying to set a screen up. It could be how Hackett or Carter are teaching the OL to play on screens. If you're covered up, try to sell it being a normal play to your defender to really get them to commit upfield but if you're uncovered, play patty cake for a second or two and then release to set up the downfield blocks. As of right now, I have no way to say if I'm right or wrong definitively, but it makes sense to me based off of what I saw. I'll have to keep a closer eye on screen plays going forward to see if this play is an anomaly or if that's what they're actually teaching the OL.
I agree with all of this. I feel like almost everyone does. My issue was with the notion that Wilson should have hit GW or Cobb. That’s just not an opinion based in reality.
I tried doing a quick google search and I'm coming up with different things. If the OL downfield is engaging in a block and the pass is thrown, it's illegal man downfield. If the OL is just running freely downfield not engaged, I think it's illegal receiver downfield. I have no idea really. Good question.
edited to add: That's almost completely wrong. College has a three yard rule, nobody has five. In the NFL the linemen get one yard and must be engaged in a block to go farther. Dean Blandino talking about ineligible man downfield penalties which are way up this season - YouTube
So he can't simply recognize that the original play was busted and return to the LOS (or behind it) and become legal? Where is this documented?
never said any. said most and thats true. 21 attempts and more then 11 were under 2 yards. 75% were under 5 yards. thats pitiful zach didn't keep the team focused. it was the opposite. have you seen the sideline clips? zach was rattled the whole game. GW and lazard kept him mentally in it. zach was talking shit about his own throws being bad on the sidelines. he was down on himself with no confidence. he wasn't leading crap. GW was leading the offense and lazard. I dind't blame zach for anything, I said he was a liability and that true. because of him we ran a gimped offense and he showed no leadership and made like 3 good throws out of 21 attempts and barely threw over the LOS. didn't push anything intermediate or downfield. we aren't winning crap with play like that.
you can be bad overall and still make a couple of good throws. josh allen was bad on monday too but still had some nice throws to diggs especially on the final drive of regulation. the TD was a shitty throw, even zach said it himself. it took a miracle catch to make it a TD. he had 3 good throws out of 21 and 75% of the time threw from behind the LOS to 5 yards past it. it was a joke offense
After looking at this, specifically this section: ************************************************************************************************************************************** Item 1. Legally Downfield. An ineligible player is not illegally downfield if, after initiating contact with an opponent within one yard of the line of scrimmage during his initial charge: he moves more than one yard beyond the line while legally blocking or being blocked by an opponent after breaking legal contact with an opponent more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, he remains stationary until a forward pass is thrown after losing legal contact with an opponent more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, he is forced behind the line of scrimmage by an opponent, at which time he is again subject to normal blocking restrictions for an ineligible offensive player. Note: If an ineligible offensive player moves beyond the line while legally blocking or being blocked by an opponent, an eligible offensive player may catch a pass between them and the line of scrimmage. Item 2. Illegally Downfield. An ineligible offensive player is illegally downfield if: he moves more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage without contacting an opponent after losing contact with an opponent within one yard of the line of scrimmage, he advances more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage after losing contact with an opponent more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, he continues to move toward his opponent’s goal line. Penalty: For ineligible offensive player downfield: Loss of five yards from the previous spot. Note: An ineligible offensive player is illegally downfield when his entire body is more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage. ***************************************************************************************************************************************** My interpretation is that in the play we're discussing (screen pass where McGovern is beyond the LOS), if he initially engaged a defender and went beyond the LOS and then broke off the contact and remained where he was, it wouldn't have been a penalty. I don't recall how the play unfolded, but if he did engage a defender and then stopped when Zach went into scramble mode, if Zach had completed a pass after all of that it would've been okay. OTOH, if McGovern simply advanced upfield without engaging anyone it would've been a penalty. What's still unclear to me though is if he returned to the LOS or behind it would that have removed the infraction? As long as he didn't advance towards the other teams goal - which by returning to the LOS he wouldn't be - he'd be okay. I'd love to hear an explanation by an expert.
