Just watched some tape of Montana and the 49'ers. Joe's arm was a lot closer to Pennington's than Favre's. What made the 9ers go was a brilliant coach, a running game that kept the defense off balance, and a great offensive line. What does this mean for the Jets? Finish off the OL reconstruction and bring in a RB that will make the LB's miss. I've see-sawed between Chad is the answer, and Chad's arm gives us an artificial ceiling for a while. After watching Joe, I'm convinced that Chad's arm and ability to call the game at the line of scrimmage is much more important than a bullet arm. A running game and improved line, combined with our balanced receiving attack will relieve pressure in Pennington's passing zone and highlight Pennington's strength's while hiding his weakness. Remember, we did what we did this year without any running game, with opposing defenses knowing we had no running game.
Good post. :up: I agree with you. With a good run game and strong offensive line, Pennington will succeed.
It'll make him look better, stats wise, but when you've got him on a timing route and he needs the zip to get it to the receiver before the DB, it just won't happen.
The only place where Pennington would be limited are the 3rd and 12+ situations. Montana couldn't make all the throws too. But they both had receivers that knew how to go get the ball and fight for it to mitigate the arm weakness. Everyone has their weaknesses. I personally want Chad's intangibles and believe his weaknesses will be offset by a stronger OL and better running game. Great management figures out how to strike the winning balance. With the cap, and the draft, we have the football assets. - I believe in our organization.
This is not 1988, it's 2007. Dwight Clark was bigger than most of the people hitting him at 6'4" and 212. That was a HUGE receiver in those days. To get the same effect now you'd need a 6'5" 230 pound receiver with enough speed not to be an automatic tackle at the catch. Roger Craig was a very muscular runningback at 6', 222 pounds with amazing hands, which is how he caught all those passes. Want a player like that for Chad in today's NFL? We're talking 6'2, 240 minimum with the same great hands. The west coast was a great adaptation for dealing with the 3-4 defenses in vogue in the 80's. It got around the problem of having 4 mobile linebackers hitting everything in sight within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. However it required big strong players on the receiving end of the ball who could stand up to a pounding every week and hold onto the ball. That characteristic has only gotten more important with the increase in the mass of players over the last 20 years. Who have the Jet's receivers been during Chad's tenure? Wayne Chrebet: retired by concussions a couple of years before he should have been. Too many bells run catching Chad's lobs over the middle. Santana Moss: 1 healthy season and other than that could not stand up to the pounding that catching the shorter passes produces. Laveranues Coles: Extraordinarily tough receiver who plays through pain. Chad's gonna catch up to him too very quickly despite the fact that he can play injured. Jerrico Cotchery? Well suffice it to say his best play of the season was right after two Patriot's players put a hell of a lick on him. He just managed to avoid hitting the ground and ran it out. In a few seasons who knows where he'll be. Oh yeah, and Chris Baker who we've described as injury prone in the past. I don't think he's injury prone I just think that if you get stretched out in traffic the way Chad stretches people out you're gonna get hurt sooner or later.
Who have the Jet's receivers been during Chad's tenure? Wayne Chrebet: retired by concussions a couple of years before he should have been. Too many bells run catching Chad's lobs over the middle. Santana Moss: 1 healthy season and other than that could not stand up to the pounding that catching the shorter passes produces. Laveranues Coles: Extraordinarily tough receiver who plays through pain. Chad's gonna catch up to him too very quickly despite the fact that he can play injured. Jerrico Cotchery? Well suffice it to say his best play of the season was right after two Patriot's players put a hell of a lick on him. He just managed to avoid hitting the ground and ran it out. In a few seasons who knows where he'll be. Oh yeah, and Chris Baker who we've described as injury prone in the past. I don't think he's injury prone I just think that if you get stretched out in traffic the way Chad stretches people out you're gonna get hurt sooner or later.[/QUOTE] I may be wrong but didn't chrebet get a lot of concussions with other Qb's? And didn't Chris Baker get injured last year with Vinny at Qb. Cotchery didn't get hurt yet. The only one he has beat up is Coles.
Chrebet had his bell rung at least 3 times with Pennington throwing to him. It's possible that Wayne was just gonna be gone at 30 regardless of who was throwing to him after 2002. His production went straight down from that point and he never produced a full season again. He did spend a lot of time rolling on the field though from late 2002 through 2005.
With a good run game that is absolutely correct! In 2002 we rolled over the Colt's in the play off's Curtis and Jordan had 169 rushing yards and Chad had over two Hundred yards passing and he was 19-25 passing for 3 TD's That is proof positive right there.
Moss- is injury prone PERIOD. He was out in Washington for some games too. He has STILL only had one healthy season of his career. Chrebet- Just has the build for injuries just as such. It is common for someone that has SO much heart, and not as much skill, to be banged up that severely. I think I recall Chrebet having 4 concussions from Testaverde, and 1 from Brooks Bollinger. He has only reported 6 concussions in his 11 year career. Coles- He has ALWAYS been injury prone too. He was his first season, and he was his last. Only diffrence is that he actually plays through injury, and THAT will be the only thing to catch up to him. If you dont let yourself completely heal, and take time off from physical pain like he has endured, then he will always be injury prone. It is great the things he has done for this organization, and his fans, but he wont last long due to his own accord. Sure Penny has had his fair share of bad passes to his recievers, and a good example of this was against our last game with the Phins. He still gets the ball in a safe location for the majority of his throws, and he usually gives his reciever a good 2ft step on any coverage player on his reciever. Just my view. :/
without a doubt the most important assignments for this Jets this off season focus around the run. We need to strengthen our run defense and fill the void of a lost Curtis Martin (if that is possible).
Well whatever we need to do, lets do it fast. Pennington is getting up there in age, next thing you know we have a new QB behind Mangold.
I believe Baker was hurt against San Diego, with Bollinger, but it was a fractured fibula. I'm pretty sure that's a bone low on your leg, close to your ankle, and if I remember correctly, it wasn't a result of a bad pass, it was just the awkward way he planted.
And Laveranues Coles to Dwight Clark. And ??? to Roger Craig? Joe Montana made a living off of passing the ball to people who were big, rugged and had great hands. Laveranues Coles has great heart and pain tolerance but he's not going to make a living for long in this offense. I don't know when he'll break down but he got rocked about a dozen times last season. On the tailback side, honestly how long do you think Leon Washington is going to hold up absorbing hits like the one in Miami 4 or 5 times a season? And that's how often it will happen if he's used fulltime as the 3rd down back.
Coles gets hit hard no matter who is throwing to him. I don't remember Cotchery getting hit hard many times during the year. And what if he is comparing Pennington to Montana? He never said he was better. Or just as good. He's just saying they have similar games, which they do. I don't see the big deal.
Montana and Pennington are both cerebral, with weak arms. Better run game gives the short passing game more space. That's it. Our offense did what it did without a running game because Chad was able to make the best possible call at the line after reading the defense - while most QB's can't put their team in the best position to succeed _after_ reading the defense. Like everything else - it's a tradeoff. I know Pennington has a weak arm. He also has the intangibles of a leader and a winner. Those attributes are rare and a common thread between winning QB's - more so than winning QB's. The other common thread behind the great QB's - they had great running games and OL's. You think Montana is _Montana_ without that great OL? You think Brady beats us last week without that OL? You think the Cowboys win 3 SB's without that OL? You think Shanahan is a magical RB drafter or you think they had a great run-blocking OL? You think the Rams are the greatest show on earth 7 years ago without that great OL - what did Warner do when his OL was not as good? Notice the common thread? Winning with a QB who's not a leader and not a winner is a lot more difficult and finding those attributes is not so common. IMHO, our best chance to win in the next 2-3 years is with Pennington, and we can mitigate his weaknesses easier than we can find his intangibles in another QB. I'm thankful that if Clemens happens to have those same intangibles, we have a coach that can recognize it - Herm would have never even played Brad Smith, Bryan Thomas, Leon Washington, etc.
Chad had one of the best O-lines in the league in 2002 along with Curtis Martin. That was good for 8-4 and a 2nd round exit in the playoffs. Then he had a strong O-line and Curtis Martin having his career year in 2004. That was good for 8-5 (Quincy Carter went 2-1 in Chad's absence against weak opposition) and a second round exit in the playoffs. There's may be a similarity in how Chad and Joe Montana lead their teams. Kind of like there's a similarity between how Jim Rice and Hank Aaron played for theirs.
Let's not forget that in 2004, Chad finished the year with a severely injured throwing shoulder that required surgery. This will sound antagonistic, but it's not meant that way. You're name username implies that you find fault in Bradway, while in hindsight, it's pretty obvious that Herm was to blame for not properly using the great talent that Bradway found. Herm is a horrible coach, who facilitated ineffective game-plans and cost us that game against the steelers. Who was Pennington throwing to that year? Becht, Santana Moss (5'7), Chrebet??? Put a healthy Chad in place, put an effective coach in place who will execute intelligent gameplans, and you have a difference. As for Montana, this is not 2002 and I am not calling him the next Montana. They both had similar weaknesses and a great OL and RB mitigated them. I'm saying that we can win with Chad. As for Rice and Aaron - I like the analogy you're making - except both were never extraordinary (aaron was more about a long career), each had 1 MVP, and neither won more than 1 world series. FB is different than baseball (IMO) because there's more coordination required for using teammates strengths to mitigate others weaknesses.
