Obviously this was the right call. I just wonder how the rule applies in blustery conditions though - is it the initial direction 'out of the hand' or the actual direction? If a ball is thrown slightly forwards and blown behind the line of scrimmage, where it is not caught and recovered by the opponent - fumble or incomplete? Similarly where it is aimed behind the line, but ends up beyond it - incomplete or fumble?
I don't know for absolute certain, but I'm pretty sure it's based on the QB's arm angle at the point of release. That would explain why the refs on the field were able to determine instantly what had happened. It only makes sense. Once the ball is in the air, it is subject to other factors. One being, as happened, another player getting his hand on the ball. Another being (though it shouldn't make that much of a difference,) wind, rain, etc. moving the ball slightly off the line it was thrown on. Obviously, if the ball is flipped underhand, it's far easier to determine that it is a lateral. However, if there was a ref on the LOS, he should have easily seen that the ball was released at an angle where the intersection would have hit the LOS behind Chad. That's the key. If you draw a straight line, through the center of the ball, at the exact release point, it will never touch the LOS in front of Chad, but will make contact with the line behind Chad. As long as there was a ref close to the original line of scrimmage, it would have been easily seen by him as a backward pass. I'm convinced that this is exactly what happened.
As I sat there and watched the ball get batted down, the televison went to some cbs show advertisement, and then quickly back to the game where some fat ass from the pats was being tackled by Cotch.....I was like wtf, as a bunch of loser Pats fans were cheering behind me. That was by far the gayest play I have ever seen and should have been called an incomplete pass and on to the next play. The progression of Leon's body was forward, the ball moved backwards hardly a half an inch and everything in general indicated a normal screen type pass. I am a bit of a conspiracy beliver and while I know from the replay it was a backwards pass my general notion is the refs were looking for something to help the pats win the game. Everyone in the NFL/ESPN network have a hard-on for bb and the Massachusetts fags. There is no way anyone could tell me that watching that play at real time, they thought it was a backwards pass. I hope LT and the rest of the San Diego Chargers put Tom Brady in a coma, Tedi Brushci has another stroke, and Bill Belichek is arrested for solicting male prostitutes.
This is one of the funniest threads of the year. Look, if you really want to play the victim here, be my guest. The FACTS are that the Pats made a great play, and Wilfork was smart enough to follow the play through to the whistle, while the Jets made a bonehead play and didn't play to the whistle. Case closed. The call was correct. There shouldn't even be a debate about it.
The call was correct, the announcers in the T.V. booth called the play before the replay " in real time " and fellow Jet fans, stop ripping each other apart it sure is hard to read all the insults in this forum. Allentown Ernie.
I'm new here. A couple of simple points from a Pats fan. First, kudos to the Jets fans who have correctly said that the Pennington throw was backwards and therefore a lateral under the rules and that the refs got it right. I don't think that point was controversial, but it's nice to see partisan fans immediately rebuff a silly, homer type point. That doesn't happen on every fan board. Second, the suggestion that the refs can't make a tough call like that at that speed is ridiculous. That's exactly what the refs are paid to do. Third, the suggestion that the Pats got the benefit of yet another break from the refs is off base on so many levels. Every single team has gotten good and bad calls over the years. All Pats fans know (and Kenny Stabler later admitted) that the Pats got totally robbed by Ben Dreith in the 1976 "Roughing the Passer" game against the Raiders. The refs made some very questionable calls against the Pats in last year's Denver playoff game, too. Some calls, in contrast, have gone in the Pats favor over the years. I remember a PI call in the end zone during the Pete Carroll era that was pretty dubous. And while I still think that Walt Coleman correctly interpreted a weird rule in the Snow Bowl, I am still amazed that he had the cojones to make that call. But the suggestion that the Pats somehow get an unfair percentage of calls in their favor, as if the NFL wants them to win, is infantile.
^^ Come on, in the last few seasons, they've gotten way more calls in their favor than against them. And I don't think it is any kind of conspiracy... just a few bad calls that were coincidentally in the Pats favor. Last year's playoff game against Denver was the first time they actually got some calls against them. These things come in cycles. The pats had it bad for years. Now they have it good. I'm waiting for our turn now
You are entitled to your opinion of course, but it happens that one of the reasons I am a Patriots fan is that they have the judges, and as we all know, that's the best thing to have.
This is one of the worst threads I've ever seen on this board. This just goes to show how people create their own reality by shoveling bullsh*t on themselves and other people and seeing if it takes. We all sound like a bunch of little babies who suck their thumbs and piss their pants when we sit around complaining about how the refs change the rules to suit the patriots, as if there's some sort of New World Order wherein the "Invisible Hand" up in the ivory tower has decided that the Patriots deserve to win it all every year. I don't think so. Personally, I'm removing the pacifier from here on out. Enough baby time.
Yes, but good teams generally get the benefit of the doubt. When the refs are calling a game, they wouldn't expect the Pats to take too many stupid penalties. You would expect that of an undiscipline, poor team like the Raiders, however.
I spent my whole life trying not to be careless. Women and children can be careless. But not men. I checked, and actually the unions and the gambling are the best things to have. But still, we have the judges.
Because what this league needs is more rules to help the offense. A forward pass is not the same as a backward or lateral pass. Thats how it has been for three or four generations. So let me get this straight: The call was correct but because it was called the refs are Patriots biased? Thats a new one. Its amazing the willful ignorance some Jets fans have. My compliments to those who a) know the rules b) aren't pretending this was some massive conspiracy against the NYJ. The ball went backwards a full yard when it hit Colvins hand. It traveled from Pennington's right - which was over the back of the center - to Colvin's outstretched right hand that was a full yard and a half to two yards behind the line. Cotchery was behind Pennington as well - and its fairly likely it was a setup for a double pass which would require this 'pass' to not be a forward one. Furthermore, it doesn't even have to be backwards, just not forwards. A 'pass' that is entirely lateral that isn't caught is still a live ball.
I should have my head examined, but I have to ask. please clarify your logic. it was a backwards pass, which the rules state makes the play a fumble and a loose ball, so why should it have been incorrectly called an incomplete pass and the Jets allowed to keep possession? please explain why the refs should have changed the rules of the game for that one play other than because you didn't want the Jets to lose.
it did, in 2002 (from Packers dot com, can't post a link, google Packers Patriots 2002) The Packers were to be back in the end zone less than a minute later. A fumbled lateral pass from New England quarterback Tom Brady to running back Kevin Faulk was eventually recovered by the Packers' Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila at the Patriots' 8-yard line after a hustling Marques Anderson alertly made the first attempt to recover the loose ball. New England coach Bill Belichick challenged the on-field ruling but the replay validated the call and Favre quickly capitalized on the opportunity, firing an 8-yard scoring pass to Green. Longwell's conversion made it 14-3, the score that prevailed at the intermission.
Such an eloquent way to talk down to people, although your entire 18-post lifetime on TGG wasn't much to really pay attention to: http://www.forums.theganggreen.com/search.php?searchid=85090
I'll agree with you on one thing you are correct when you say you have no clue. As a pats fan I'll tell you this. We our selves fell victim to the same play back in 2002 at home vs the Packers. The pass was just slightly backwards almost parallel but it makes no difference and the ball was short and fell to the ground. Everyone walked around like it was an incomplete pass except for one green bay player who picked up the ball and ran. One patriots player Steven Neil ran him down and tackled him. The receiver Kevin Faulk stood there like a zombie just as the majority of both teams did. As a player of professional football you should always play to the whistle and if in doubt always go for the ball and run with it if you can. Let the refs sort it out after the play is finally blown dead. It was actually Bill Belichick that screamed to Wilfork from the sidelines to run after Wilfork picked up the ball. That is one of those things that the players aren't thinking about and seems to go over their heads every now and then when one happens. I was the right call though.
