I think the Fields vs. Wilson question is a legitimate question. Clearly Wilson was a better prospect but I would argue that Wilson has performed below expectations while Fields has in some ways exceeded expectations. Wilson despite the flash off-structure plays was drafted 2nd because of his ability to play efficiently within the structure of the offense which he did really well at BYU. At BYU he ran a similar offense and made pro type throws and was by far the most polished and pro-ready of the two. Fields did not run a pro offense or make pro throws in college and did not even run an offense where receivers ran option routes. Fields had a longer slower delivery with mechanical issue and was a much more raw prospect but with a lot of upside because of athleticism. Fields had a hard time staying in the pocket in college and had horrible pocket presence. Wilson was the opposite displaying great pocket pocket presence and an ability to stay in the pocket and make plays with his arm. Wilson underachieved in playing within the structure of the offense. The first 5 games he played poorly with his success being in off structure plays. the last 7 games he improved dramatically where his success came within structure running the offense efficiently. He still has a lot of work to do here. Fields was extremely raw and made a lot of progress in the staying in the pocket and throwing out of the pocket. He has has a really beautiful deep ball and was much more successful than Wilson throwing deep. I think Fields exceeded expectations throwing out of the pocket and acclimating to running a pro offense as he was such a raw propsect. Where Fields was really bad in college and was awful last year was pocket presence. Fields completely lacks pocket presence. He had 11 fumbles in only half a season which is amazing and double Sanchez bad. Fields also takes sacks at a very high rate but more concerning is Fields takes hard hits as does not see defenders coming and is a huge injury risk. His lack of pocket presence was why he missed so much time. Wilson on the other hand has great pocket presence and avoids almost all big hits but Wilson also tries to do too much and runs himself into sacks even if he avoids the hard hits. Taking Sacks at a slightly higher rate than Fields. Wilson's injury seemed more like a fluke with a defender falling on his leg not a hard hit. Wilson needs to stop causing sacks by trying to do too much. Fields is amazingly athletic. His running ability is a huge weapon. His arm is strong and accurate. Both QBs seem to possess great character and be team leaders. IMO Fields has greater upside than Wilson. But Fields biggest problem is staying on the field and avoiding big hits, His second biggest problem might be his supporting cast but playing in the NFC probably evens that out. Avoiding big hits is where he needs to improve the most. A QB needs to be available and Fields is a huge injury risk. He was horrible in avoiding hits in college and again last year. I think the question of Fields vs. Wilson is a legit question. I always prefer QBs who make plays from the pocket and undervalue those who run but I do recognize how dynamic Fields running ability is and how that can give him extra time in the pocket. Wilson is still much better and more advanced from the pocket but Fields athleticism offers a lot. I prefer Wilson but I think its a legit question and could see Fields being a very good pro QB.
Of course he does but that is with every NFL player. Wins are not a QB stat. I go back to Deshaun only winning 4 games with the Texans.
Funny @BrowningNagle is complaining about Zach being in the booth, where as I thought it was impressive he was at the game at all. He was at practice too on his cart. Shows you how much he loves his team and wants to be there. I guess we have two different philosophies on Zach Wilson. Wouldn't that make you wonder if something was wrong with Fields? They are offering their starting QB straight up for a guy who just hurt his knee and had terrible stats last year, as I keep getting told! I like Justin Fields though. I think he is in a bad situation in Chicago. To answer the question: No. I'll stick with Zach.
Wins should be a QB stat like they are with MLB Pitchers. Frankly it's THE most important stat in football. QB's have possibly the most influence on how well a team plays.
No chance. Nothing either guy has done so far has warranted flipping their draft spots. Now, if I could waive a magic wand and go back in time to take Fields at 11 instead of Wilson at 2, that's intriguing. But I wouldn't trade Wilson straight up for Fields right now.
This draft may well go down as one of the great QB drafts of the last 10 years, and it will be on the analysts. Their were several really talented QBs and they were stolen for peanuts because the pundets, who are rarely ever right about QBs to begin with, down played them, and everyone went receiver crazy. The best part is all of these talented QBs are being made to earn their spot. They actually have more competition while less pressure on them. Its a developmental dream. Even Pickett, who went pick 20, is being told, "you have to out perform Trubisky and Rudolph to start on opening day. If not sit and learn". That's perfect. And he is learning to rise to the occasion. We saw last night RIdder compete with Mariota, and he's looking darn good. 10 of 13 for 143. If he doesn't beat out Mariota he can sit and learn, which is perfect. But he is still learning he has to earn it. The same with Malik Willis and Ryan Tannahil. And Willis is already giving Tanny a run for his money. Matt Corral, who was the greenest, the Trey Lance of this draft minus the ridiculous price, gets to learn behind Mayfield and Sam for a year. Sam Howell has a year to learn behind Wentz and Pentzsky. I wouldn't be surprised to see as many or more of these guys succeed in the long run than the 2021 QBs because their getting proper development instead of being rushed. And they cost peanuts compared to the 2021 class (minus Davis Mills, who also wasn't anointed the starter).
Good points! Way less pressure on this year's class, which could definitely help their development. We still don't know if any can play in the NFL, but each of the ones you mentioned have shown they belong on NFL rosters at least. I bet Pickett and Ridder eventually start at some point in 2022. This will be a fun year for the 2021 class though. Lawrence, Wilson (when he returns), Lance, Fields, Jones and Mills will separate themselves from each other this year. I am excited to see which ones take the jump and which ones fall back. Maybe all 6 will do well. Never know. I expect a big jump from Lawrence and Wilson. Lance is the most interesting. He is in a great situation. If he is great, he could be really great.
Also from 2021 is Trask, who will have to wait for Brady to step aside, and Kellen Mond, whose behind Cousins.
When has there been any indication that Wilson has ever been "contributing to the play calls"? He's supposed to be learning, not teaching. If LaFleur needs the input of Wilson at this point, he's not the right guy for the job.
He is likely doing the same thing he did last year when they wanted him involved with the playcalls. Last year while injured he had a mike listened, interacted and offered his suggestions and his thoughts as to what he saw and liked. The idea being was they want him to be engaged and part of the process so when he comes back he is up to speed.But also being the QB it is important that LaFleur knows what he sees, what he wants and what he likes. Everyday is an opportunity to learn. Just because one is injured does not mean the learning stops.
I understand the value of a young quarterback interacting with a coach who can explain the reasoning behind certain playcalls as a learning tool for the player but I never saw anything that indicated Wilson was contributing to determining playcalls this year or now. That would seem to be putting the cart before the horse.
Those are your words not mind. Yes, last year they had him on the mike during playcalls interacting with Lafleur while injured. They wanted it to be a teaching moment and to keep him involved in the game. I don't 100 percent recall the exact details but I am sure he was able to ask questions, contribute if he saw something and keep involved as if he was there playing. I think Zach calling plays is something you said not me. I just said he was likely contributing like he did last year. I am sure he has a voice in terms of playcalls outside the game and a limited role during the game if he sees something. Any starting QB will help with playcalls during the week. They will say what they think works, what doesen't, what they like, what they don't and what they prefer. I am sure Zach contributes as do all the QBs in the QB room. As the year went on last year they adjusted and the playbook evolved. They took out some of the playcalls Zach did not like and some of the playcalls they found were not working and adjusted how they did many plays. One of the biggest adjustments and was how they ran PA running mostly from shotgun rather center the last 7 games as it gave him a better view of the defense which was a big change from the 1st 5 games.
No one is giving up on the #2 overall pick. But, if he played for any other team, given what we've seen so far (injury history in high school and college, injured his 1st year as a pro, and injured in his 1st pre season game in his 2nd year along with worst in league stats for his 1st year) you and every other fan on this board would be screaming, "BUST." That's realistic. Again I reiterate that I hope he is great. I want him to be great, and I would love Chris Simms to be prophetic in his pre-draft evaluation of Zach Wilson, but it is not looking likely at this point.
I don't think that analogy is quite working Cman. A pitcher is at least 85% of a team's defense, probably closer to 90%, with the other 10-15% falling on the defensive ability behind him. That's why it makes sense, to me, to make pitcher wins a category. Meanwhile, how do these percentages break down on an NFL offense, in terms of player importance? Just off the top of my head: OL -- 33% (split five ways) skill -- 33% (split five ways) QB -- 33% (still an enormously high percentage, but less than half a pitcher's value.
That is an interesting point, but I don't think Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields are busts. They both had disappointing rookie seasons too. I would give a QB at least two, maybe three seasons to prove if they are a bust or not. You are right that Zach is our QB, so we may look at him differently, but I think I would be treating him the same if he was on another team. He has great potential but injuries are a worry. I wouldn't label any of the 2021 QB's as busts yet. Certainly not Zach.
How can you say the quotation is mine and not yours when I've quoted and replied to two of your messages that use two different forms of the word "contribute" relative to playcalling and now you've used it twice again in your denial? Wilson needs to work on his own end of the game, he has enough on his plate without trying to tell somebody else what to do - that includes selecting plays during a game he's not in. I already agreed he can learn by listening to the call making process but he has no business being a part of it at this stage of his game. For that matter, LaFleur has not demonstrated a great mastery of play calling either; he doesn't need another voice in his headset in the heat of battle, he has already shown he prefers to be isolated in the booth rather than in the thick of the action on the sideline. We're not talking about the involvement of the quarterbacks in game planning - that's a whole different thing, we're talking about individual plays called during the game.
Richard Nixon suggested a play once and the Redskins ran it in a playoff game. The play lost 13 yards...
