Simms has been mostly right regarding QBs. One cannot draft scared. Simms just confirmed what many others had been saying and what a number of us here have been saying. The Jets have a chance to draft not only a FQB but a star-level FQB with Wilson. No, the bold is wrong. Simms could be wrong about Wilson being a star-level QB, yet he could still be a very good FQB. Simms could be wrong, and Wilson could be a very good, consistent, solid starter. something Sam has never been and likely never will be. It's not all or nothing. There's no way that Wilson is going to be a bust. He's already a better QB than Sam in every way except experience in the NFL, and that is easily remedied by drafting him. These are not assumptions. Either you haven't watched any film on him, or don't know what you're looking at or how to assess a QB.
Sure, we could do that, but neither may ever develop. Both have more and bigger flaws than Zach Wilson. We have the opportunity to draft a QB who can be a true FQB, a star in the NFL, who is a perfect fit for our offense, and who can quite possibly start day one. Why just to add another position player or two, would we risk missing out on a great QB? That makes no sense. Getting a FQB is more important than any 2-3 position players. This is a QB-driven league. The better your QB, the better your chances of getting to and winning a SB. Even if Lance and/or Fields fix their flaws and develop, how long are you willing to wait? A year? two? With Zach Wilson there would probably be little or no waiting unless, they just didn't want to put too much pressure on him and decided to let him sit for the first part of his rookie season and give him a chance to adjust to life in the NFL. The only real question/red flag with Wilson are his shoulders, and with the way he was slinging the ball this year, there doesn't appear to be any issues with his shoulders. If he checks out medically, he should be the pick at #2 unless we trade for Watson.
Come on, how can you not have heard this news by now? https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...l-draft-qb-ranking/10hih93rbmjmk18ot7mmdu5kqj Or this imaginatively titled thread on this very site? https://forums.theganggreen.com/thr...case-of-zach-wilson.95344/page-5#post-4053908
I liked Fields, but I've also liked Lance and Wilson, so don't start that crap. I've been saying for weeks/months that I'd be happy with any of the three. After watching Simms' videos/podcasts where he explains why he ranked the QBs as he did, I changed my mind on both Fields and Lance. I'll hope for the best if JD decides to trade down and take one of them, but in trading down, he could miss out on all of the top QB prospects, or at least the one(s) he likes best. Unless some definitive character issue surfaces, he proves to have some chronic condition in his throwing shoulder, or the Jets trade for Watson, I firmly believe that Wilson should be the pick at #2. He is now my QB. I've said all along that it was a process, and that I would continue to read, listen, watch, and learn. For now, Wilson is my guy, and I'm sticking to it until or unless I'm not.
Simms is Chris Simms, one of the sons of Phil Simms. He works for NBC as an analyst. He wants to become an NFL GM or Personnel Exec. Read this thread and the other QB threads. Simms has pretty much nailed who were the best QBs in each of the last 3-4 drafts. He also said that Justin Jefferson was the #2 WR in last year's draft class when others had him ranked down around 4th or 5th. Watch his podcast where he talks about why/how he came up with his rankings. Yes, I think Wilson can start day one. It doesn't matter if Douglas could get 6-7 decent players. A true FQB is worth more than 10 decent players. No, YOU are wasting a HUGE opportunity passing on a FQB to get a haul of draft picks. I don't know why some of you have suddenly become so enamored with getting a haul of draft picks, but it's silly imo. It might be one thing if we had a veteran CS who could handle around 20 rookies and new players this season, but we don't. They will have their hands full instituting their systems, getting their routines down and incorporating the 13 or 14 new players we'll alread have between FA and the draft. The NFL is a QB-driven league. The teams that have the best QBs have the best chances of getting to and winning a SB, not the teams that have the best OL. Look at who the final 4 teams were this year and who their QBs are. Why do you persist in saying something ridiculous like "I doubt Wilson or anyone else will do much better than Sam playing with the same lack of surrounding talent." I respect you and your opinion too, but it is beneath you to say something that wrong and utterly ridiculous. Wilson would not have the same lack of surrounding talent that Sam had. Between FA and the draft, Wilson will have a lot more talent around him and by all appearances, he will have better coaching. JD would have to be Mac- or Idzik-level incompetent for Wilson to not be surrounded by better talent. Besides, if you know anything about BYU this year, Wilson didn't have a ton of talent around him there and they won every game except one. He made the players around him better. Sorry, but your opinion is based on lack of knowledge about Wilson. With all respect (truly), you didn't even know who Chris Simms is. That's not meant as an insult, just as an emotionless statement of fact. I've spent countless hours over the last several months, watching videos of the QBs' games, watching video analysis of the QB prospects, reading scouting reports and media analysis of the prospects, looking at statistics/analytics, and watching more video of them. Have you? I suspect not. If not, then you don't have nearly the facts/knowledge that I do on the situation. That doesn't mean that my opinoin is infallible or make me an expert, but my opinion should carry more weight than yours. So all opinions aren't equal. You're free to think or want whatever you want, but I can only tell you that it would be a HUGE mistake to try to roll with Sam and/or to pass on Wilson.
yes, Wilson seems to be separating himself as the clear #2. If rumors are true that the Falcons are looking to move up to get him, I think my fantasy that we could trade back to 4 then 5 is realistic. At that point Fields and Lance will still be there. But after that Philly, Detroit and Carolina could all take a QB; it wouldn’t be worth the risk to try and go further down if we want any of the QB’s.
Read thru the @NCJetsfan takes. All good stuff. First, this is why I won't go down a rabbit hole this early in the process, even the Zack Wilson rabbit hole today. I know I confuse some fellow posters, I seem to be all over the place, but this time of the season to look at every situation 10 different ways (just like a GM must do!). Sam, Zack, Watson, pros-cons,....on and on. There's so many options and so much new info coming in every day. Keeping an open mind as much as possible (tough to do) and explore what's good and not good about every option is what this time of year is all about. We have the #2 pick with a 2nd FQB on the board (Simms). The BEST place for any team in this position is to ALREADY have a FQB and then trade #2 to another FQB needy team for a HUGE haul. Sets your team ahead of the curve for a decade. This is what makes 'Build Around Sam' such an attractive option. I know, I know. BUT if there's even a whiff of a possibility that we ALREADY have a FQB, then it makes all the sense in the world to keep Sam and trade out of #2. It's such a huge benefit to already have a FQB vs using the #2 on one that you KNOW JD and Saleh and LaFleur are looking at the possibility with open eyes. It'd be a hard sell that keeling Sam is the correct answer, shocking really, but this HAS to be at least one path forward they are seriously looking at. The benefits are too real. JD last presser seemed to hint they've already made up their mind (Sam's toast), but there's a month to go. This has been on of the most interesting off seasons we've had in a while....so much riding on it.
I'm all for keeping an open mind but Sam is not a franchise QB. If his first three years haven't shown you that then I don't know what to say. Then again you unironically think he's better than Mahomes so I don't know why I'm even engaging at this point. Nobody is saying theres a 0% chance Sam's the guy. We're saying it's such a minuscule chance, for so many different reasons, that it would be insane to pass up a very good QB prospect at #2 in the hopes Sam works out. We've all said this to you many times though, and you keep coming back with the same ridiculous views under the guise of "I'm just being open minded". No, it's not being open minded, it's ignoring all evidence and probability. These are the facts: -QB is the most important position in the game, by far. -We have had the worst starting QB in the NFL over the last 3 years, and he regressed significantly in his most recent year. -We're in a place to draft a very good prospect at #2, a guy who would very likely be better than Sam and certainly cheaper than Sam. Let's stop overthinking this. Please.
We will be debating this very topic on our stream next Wednesday. I don't believe in Sam, but I will say there are some very compelling reasons to keep him.
I saw the presser and didn't think they made any hint about Sam. The media took it means Sam is gone because JD said he will answer the phone. GM's always talk. Someone said they left Sam hanging as if they can't talk to Sam everyday if they want. There have been no quotes from Sam or his agent. Maybe they know a lot but have been asked to keep it quiet.
Wow, sorry...I did not know Chris Simms was this important. Forgive me for not immediately recognizing his last name and his lasting impact on the NFL. I need to spend more time away from my private and professional goals and focus more on what Chris Simms says. I guess Johnson made a error hiring Douglas--he should have hired Chris Simms. Maybe we can hire Simms as a consultant during the draft...sounds like he is really something!
Exactly. In the media capital of the world, against the best defensive division in football, Bills, NE, and MIA. Wilson won’t do better without talent. If you say trade the farm for Watson then im with everyone. Zach Wilson, the savior in NYC. yea yea whatever heard that before. and at #2 GTFOH.
Looking forward too it, I hope a few more from here come along and watch it live or like me the next day at sensible UK hours
tbf there is no need for the sarcasm, it has been a hot topic for 24-48 hours and a huge thread on it on here, people just assume that people who post on here actually read the other threads.
I can't imagine someone actually doing worse than Sam, but the issue to me is the notion that if we draft a QB at #2 he will be playing with the same roster as last year. We have another first round pick and all the other picks in the draft. We also have a ton of cap room to sign players. If Douglas drafts a QB at 2 and the talent level for the rest of the team is the same as last year then he failed miserably at his job.
You don't think that if they were keeping Sam they would have backed him a little more than that performance? He was asked by 4 different reporters pretty much the same question and he certainly shied away from backing Sam imo, unfortunately for me, it sounded like no Watson as well.
I always respect your POV, and even agree with you to some extent here, but I disagree with a couple of key things you say. First, while Sam is still young, and he does have actual NFL experience, that experience has been mostly bad, and most concerning is: has he been ruined, either by being sacked and under pressure so often (Seeing ghosts), and/or by being handcuffed by Gase to the point where he's lost his self-confidence? Maybe he can be rehabbed, but maybe he can't. That's a real risk IMO. Second, If Darnold isn't the answer and you've passed up this once in two decades chance to draft this high without burning lots of draft capital, how will they be able to draft his replacement? Sure, they could simply sign a serviceable vet and take their chances, but history shows that without a legit FQB most teams don't make it to the SB let alone win one - it's possible, but very rare. And even if they tried to trade up - burning much if not more of the "haul" you mention - there's no guarantee that A) There will be a QB as good or better than Wilson next year, and B) That a team with the #1 or #2 pick agrees to trade it. Third, what is your definition of a "haul"? I know mine includes two firsts and a 2nd or 3rd in 2021, and a first in 2022, and depending on how far back that team is trading up from, maybe a 2nd or 3rd in 2022, or a first in 2023. What I've seen you mention is a simple swap of firsts this year and an additional 2nd and 3rd, plus a first next year, and to me that's not near enough for the #2 pick which itself is worth two firsts. A FQB is THE MOST IMPOSTANT POSITION on the team, and the Jets don't have one. Until they do, that has to be the primary focus. All these other position players that might well turn out to be great are way more obtainable than a FQB.
