Dr. Z was great. Mentioning that hack Peter King in the same sentence with him makes me ill (obviously not in the context you’re using, but you get my point - there is NO comparison in quality between them).
Any chance this guy get in? Would he go in as a Jet? Kellen Winslow II accepts 14-year sentence for rapes, sex crimes Former NFL tight end Kellen Winslow II agreed to a new plea deal calling for him to spend 14 years in prison for raping two women and committing other sexual crimes, according to multiple reports on Friday afternoon. © Reuters/Reuters Photographer KELLEN WINSLOW HOLDS UP CLEVELAND BROWNS UNIFORM AFTER BEING SELECTED AS SIXTH OVERALL PICK IN NFL DRAFT. The agreement was submitted Friday in San Diego Superior Court and replaces a previous agreement from November 2019 in which a sentencing range from 12 to 18 years was to be determined by a judge. Winslow, 37, is guilty in the rapes of a 58-year-old homeless woman in 2018 and of an unconscious 17-year-old, when Winslow was 19, at a party in 2003. Overall, he committed sex crimes against five women, including an assault of a hitchhiker in a parking lot behind a shopping center. In the new agreement, Winslow pleaded guilty to the hitchhiker assault with the intent to commit rape. All of the attacks took place in the northern part of San Diego County. A final sentencing hearing was set for March 3. Winslow was initially found guilty on three charges in June 2019, including indecent exposure toward a 58-year-old woman who was gardening in her front yard, a lewd conduct incident involving a 78-year-old woman at a health club and the rape of the homeless woman. The following day, a judge declared a mistrial on eight other counts. Winslow confessed to the 2003 party rape in November 2019. Winslow appeared remotely from jail during Friday's proceedings. "I would like to agree to 14 years," Winslow told Judge Blaine Bowman, according to USA Today. Winslow is the son of Pro Football Hall of Fame tight end Kellen Winslow, who starred for the San Diego Chargers from 1979-87. Kellen Winslow II was a high school star in San Diego and went on to be a college star at Miami before being the sixth overall pick by the Cleveland Browns in 2004. He caught 469 passes for 5,236 yards and 25 touchdowns in 105 games (83 starts) with the Browns, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, New England Patriots and New York Jets. His final NFL season was 2013 with the Jets. Winslow II earned Pro Bowl honors in 2007 when he caught 82 passes for a career-best 1,106 yards for the Browns. He had a career-high 89 catches in 2006.
He is mine as well, only thing that stopped Mark was a a woman. Size, speed, power, not even double teams stopped Mark. I get the affection for Klecko and I liked him a lot as well, I just give the edge to Mark.
Another great Jet who if he didn't retire early would have made it, one of the greatest receivers in AFL History, George Sauer
I really do not think Gastineau could hold Klecko’s Jack strap. He was a one trick pony you could run the ball right at him, while Klecko could do it all. When they both played End in 1980 and 1981 their sack total were almost identical with Mark 1 more in 1980 and Joe one more in 1981, then Klecko moved inside so his sack numbers went down but not his game, and Gastineau breaks Klecko’s sack record. Think of it this way, which do you think is more likely the case. The other 3 members of the Sack Exchange enjoyed more success because of Klecko or because of Gastineau. The next choice after Klecko is Joe Fields. He never got the recognition because Mike Webster was doing his thing in Pittsburgh on a winning team. Once the Jets got better in 1981 he started to get All Pro recognition.
I agree Matt Robinson. I was never a fan of his over the top "LOOK AT ME" antics. Screamed of a selfish teammate, while Joe was the consummate team player, agreeing to switch positions multiple times to help the team out. As others have pointed out, he also continued to DOMINATE at every position he played (DE, DE and NT) proving that he was by far, the superior defensive lineman. Gastineau was a one trick pony compared to Joe.
A true oldtimer would probably put Gerry Philbin ahead of Klecko. Both were All-Pro twice, Philbin played a year or two less. Sacks were not officially recorded until Klecko's third or fourth season but Wikipedia says Philbin had 14.5 in 1968 (that's in 14 games) and an article from the Jets says it was nineteen times. Maybe the difference is that the Jets number includes the playoffs and the SB. And then there's that thing about the ring. Where Are They Now: Gerry Philbin (newyorkjets.com)
Philbin is first-team on the All-time AFL team. Larry Grantham is second-team on the All-time team, and made the AP All-AFL team 8 times (5 times first team) and the UPI All-AFL team 7 times (4 times first team). It's going to take some official Hall of Fame initiative to honor former AFL players for these very deserving guys to get in.
Some of you guys are selling Gastineau short. He was an incredible player. Joe Klecko deseeves to be in the HOF but so does Mark. Favre taking a dive does not make Strahan the sack king.
I obviously agree with all of you throwback Joe Klecko and Mark Gastineau faithful. I believe one day that all 3 of Darrelle Revis, D'Brickishaw Ferguson and Nick Mangold will make it into the HOF as legendary Jets of my generation. All 3 of #94 John Abraham, #80 Wayne Chrebet and Santana Moss (imo) are all deserving of the Hall of Fame as well.
I always say Klecko, and Mangold I hope to see in, too. However, Larry Grantham's omission makes no sense at all. Coupled with Philbin one begins to wonder about an anti AFL bias...
While he didn't play long enough due to injury, when I think of excellent Jet players, I always remember Lance Mehl.
I once got into a discussion with a work colleague and serious baseball fan about who deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. We both agreed that it should be someone with overwhelming statistics e.g. 500 HRs, or barring that, a key member of a very good team e.g. Phil Rizzuto. So that's the standard I like to use. Obviously, in football, game statistics can't be used for many positions such as OL. So based on that, I think there is enough statistical evidence for Klecko, Gastineau, Revis, Abraham (but not as a Jet.) I don't think the statistics support either Chrebet (only 1 1000yd season in his career) or Moss (borderline, only 4 1000yd seasons in a 14 yr career, also not as a Jet.) Mangold should get in based on the number of pro bowl and all-pro selections (10), however, I don't think Ferguson has enough of those selections (3) to qualify.
To your excellent points, @westiedog1, I think OL have the most difficult time of any positional player (not counting special teams) getting into the HOF for the reasons which you cited. Off the top of my head I can think of several HOF-worthy OL from various teams who have basically been largely forgotten or completely ignored by HOF voters, which is a damn shame.
