I think Rosen WILL learn to get rid of the ball...or he'll get killed or maimed. Pain is a great teacher. In going back and watching his games I was impressed at how well he moved in the pocket and avoided hits, which was a bit of a surprise to me. When he did take hits, it was usually after he scrambled and bought time and then hung tight to finally try to complete a pass or avoid the sack. He needs to get better at that, but his pocket presence and movement should allow him to.
his hits that he took when he was scrambling are scary! He's got to learn how to slide if he knows what's good for him! He gets hit with his body standing straight up... these beasts in the NFL will feast on him he if he doesn't learn to protect himself better.
I completely agree, but sheer self-preservation will teach him that. It's much easier to learn how to do that than to throw the ball like he can.
Regardless of whether we need a playoff appearance or not...we are at least one more year away from having a young respectable roster;And that doesn't include players stepping up & executing the team to wins.Doesn't matter which QB we bring in. The team has already made it clear w. their actions that they want a QB to sit year 1. What we've seen from Bowles only supports that. Why then are we going to worry about the QB's immediate return or "Floor" & why in the world would we NOT take upside into consideration? Again, we already know the QB is going to sit year 1...I'd like to think the young QB has a chance to get BETTER during that transitionary period. Am I wrong? Also, This idea that Mayfield is a surer bet developmentally compared to Allen needs to put in its place once & for all. Allen needs to work on ball placement specifically within the top of his foot work & touch on his throws.We know he can takes snaps under center,we know he can command a pro style offense & we know he won't back down from inferior surrounding cast which it may still be by the time he plays. Mayfield needs to learn to take snaps under center, learn how to command a pro style offense, learn how to make throws when 80% of his targets aren't wide open & he needs to learn pocket discipline & not drift in the pocket to find a throwing lane. Someone please explain to me how Mayfield is a surer bet to play earlier than Allen. Cause that theory just makes no sense to me & suggests folks are AGAIN depending on college stats/production for their projections.
I agree that it's likely whomever we get will sit for a year, Bowles himself said that whoever shows the best will start, including a rookie. As a long-suffering fan, I don't necessarily wait for a year (or two or three) to have some hope and to see proof that the pick was the right one. I much prefer taking the guy who CAN step right in and start, even if he has some struggles, as he will.
And in spite of the fact that Mayfield needs to learn how to take snaps from under center,pro style offense from scratch,better pocket discipline & how to make completions when guys aren’t wide open 80% of the time you still think he can step right in? Cause I’m being honest..I’m much more confident in Allen stepping in & running an NFL offense day 1 than I am Mayfield.And that’s even under the assumption that Allen is still inaccurate.Bare in mind I think both would benefit from sitting a year..but humor me for arguments sake
No, I agree that Mayfield - as well as Allen - probably need to sit. But honestly, maybe both COULD start playing year 1. although it might look ugly. I am of the school that a #1, first round QB SHOULD play the first year, unless you already have an entrenched QB, like GB did with Favre, and even then, why would you use that pick on a QB? An exception might be like the Giants who may not know how much Eli has in the tank and so want to take advantage of their "luck" in having the #2 this year. And between Allen and Mayfield, I think Mayfield can make the transition more quickly than Allen, but IF Allen can fix his issues, he may well have the biggest upside. For me though, that is a big "IF". If the Jets take Mayfield, I would hope they install and offense that takes advantage of his strengths and minimizes his shortcomings (and I hope they do that for whomever they pick). Given Mayfield's ability to move and scramble and make throws on the run, coupled with the Jets less-than-All-Pro OL, I think he would do well, and then as the OL improved, he would presumably improve his pocket play. Running the WCO they supposedly want to run, is Allen, with his short passing problems and mediocre deep ball accuracy, a good fit? My comment though was based on my belief that Rosen can come right in and start, and he's the guy I really want.
Well in college Mayfield had the highest % on "NFL TYPE THROWS" ... he clearly is way ahead of Allen in all forms of accuracy. His mechanics are also light years ahead of Allen. Mayfield wasn't always throwing to wide open WR's he was great at making passes through tight windows. It's pretty evident to me that Mayfield will not have to be taught as much as Allen will need to be taught... just look at where they are as passers RIGHT NOW. For Allen, yes he ran a pro-style offense... but what does that matter if he didn't run it well? He was in a horrible conference and still couldn't throw for 2K yards... or over 55%. People say yeah Mayfield played in the big 12 they have no defenses either... cool.. go watch his game film of him shredding Ohio St. and Georgia then. I also don't agree with our rookie HAVING to sit the entire year 1... for all we know Teddy may not make the day 1 roster. Dude hasn't really gotten to play in a few years and his health is still up in the air. If whoever we draft gives us a great training camp and pre-season (better than Teddy) I can see that rookie being #2 on the depth chart. McCown will start the year but if he gets hurt (which is always high probability for him) or the team is out of realistic contention I can see the rook getting his first look. I could be wrong but that's how I see things possibly playing out.
not too sure about this but I read that in the NFL 80% of passes last year where taken out of shot gun, pistol formation. The whole under center thing is starting to fade a little bit and becoming more irrelevant for rookies that don't take snaps from under center anyway.
i get why some people are down on mayfield and I agree he has some work to do but that kid has been slept on again and again and proven people wrong. If he can make it work in the NFL he'd be a damn folk hero. I don't think Allen is a first round QB. Would take Lamar Jackson over him in a heartbeat.
Not only is this true but when I the watched the Oklahoma-Georgia game again many of the plays that Oklahoma ran especially in the first half reminded me a lot of the Patriots short passing game. I wonder if that's why the Patriots are in interested in Mayfield as some rumors say.
"NFL type throws" according to PFF which bases every single bit of their conclusions on analytics & college production. Tell me...how much will all those college stats matter when he steps on the field for OTA's for the first time? Pretty much nothing. Now his hand size, height & the fact that he played in an extremely QB friendly,physically superior offense that catered to his strengths in a manner that will not pass on the NFL level?Jason White, Josh Heupel,Landry jones,Sam Bradford all sound familar? They all played QB for Oklahoma in a time when Big 12 wasn't quite the joke it is now. They all put up comparable stats in pretty much the same offense;Some even won the Heisman. None of them were FQB's & only 2 of them were legit day 1 or 2 prospects. What does that say? Same thing goes for Allen. How much does that 56% matter once he's drafted? Now HIS height, athleticism, arm talent & big hands damn well will matter. Crappy surrounding cast,No go to guy, very few high % throws...they may sound like excuses but when compared to Mayfield's college situation it sure does provide quite the contrast. In what world does Mayfield have better mechanics than Allen? He rarely takes a straight drop, rarely makes a throw without drifting to the flanks for a proper passing lane given his stature & was undr center for 4% of his snaps. Allen took 35% of snaps from under center. His mechanical flaws are extremely minor. He over strides at the top of his drops/hitch , can rush his release & needs to learn better touch on shorter throws. I couldn't disagree MORE that Mayfield has better mechanics. It all comes down to completion % for you. And it seems like you're confusing ball placement for completing passes when they aren't the same thing at all. It's been beaten to a dead horse on this board. If you are still gonna harp on college stats...and an exremnely flawed metric...there's no point in further discussion. I respect your opinion but we are simply on other planets when it comes to evaluating QB talent.
You can't just completely dismiss entire body of work done by the players in College. In this case, all kinds of analysis have been done on their actual body of work. To get this body of work they used their size and their ability. With all his amazing physical attributes in play, Allen's body of work/production was far inferior to Mayfield. Even when you analyze NFL type throws, throws when pressured, throws 20 yards down the field, throws adjusted for drops, etc, etc... Every which way you analyze production based on actual play (not combine measurements but performance using these attributes against real competition), Baker comes out on top. I do agree shorter size may pose more problems in NFL, but you can't just dismiss outstanding body of work done in the last 3-4 years. It matters, and it matters a lot. Size also matters, but it is very concerning that Allen wasn't able to use his size and amazing arm to get better results against competition he was facing. It's not going to get much easier in NFL. And don't forget, this is not some freshman - Allen is a senior and will be 22 years old in a month, yet still does not have great College accomplishments in spite of god given physical tools.
It's not exactly just numbers to me, when I get to my ipad after work I'll be able to post visuals that show what I mean by Baker's mechanics being superior to Allen's. I have a nice collection of his game film I'll be able to break down. Only problem I have with baker's mechanics is his release of the ball which sometimes hurts him in leading his WR to get YAC. Lets the ball go at a really high point on his release which can cause a sail at times. Still an accurate ball, but he's gotta be able to lead your WR to get some YAC better. Hard to really make my case for Baker without bringing up numbers since I don't have my videos on me, I'd end up going back to numbers.. which i agree with you can only can make my case but so much..
I think it was more like 45% across all teams, although a few like the Eagles were in the 60 - 70% range. But you're right, more SG is being used. I don't where/how the QB takes the snap is the biggest problem with spread QB's - it is an issue because they have to learn how to take different drops and their sight plane to start the play is different - but it's that most spread systems aren't as complex as pro SG systems. That said, I think Oklahoma's was pretty complex and Mayfield showed a strong grasp of it, and did well on the whiteboard sessions, so I think he can transition pretty quickly.
Mayfield shouldn't even be a top 20 pick. Anyone who wants him in the top 10, needs to have their heads examined. Undersized SPREAD OFFENSE QB. Good luck with that.
I would take Lamar over both Mayfield and Allen to be honest, but Allen is very intriguing, people have been down on Allen too. Actually, I prefer Allen's story / and character to Mayfields! So much about Allen I didn't know. https://www.denverpost.com/2017/09/22/josh-allen-wyoming-qb/ If anyone was slept on it was Allen. Imagine if this kid had some coaching earlier? Imagine if he gets good coaching now?
