101P10, I didn't want to make a huge post, but very good response back a couple of posts (#236.) You made a lot of good points. You know, honestly, with Zito, I think I may just be too enamored with his ridiculous curve to think intelligently about him. The biggest reason I want Zito is to be able to watch him pitch. He is one of the few guys in baseball that I truly enjoy watching pitch. He brings a certain "art" back to the position, but I guess that's really not a reason to want him. I'd rather have titles than just get to see a pitcher with a wicked off-speed pitch, especially when you factor in what you said about a #3 getting #1 money. The one thing about Zito that does make him truly attractive is if you have a lot of power in your rotation around him. His "stuff" is augmented when he has fastballers pitching around him. You get a guy who throws mid-to-high 90s the day before him, and suddenly that curve ball is diving on the best hitters in the league. He's not a great pitcher on his own, anchoring a rotation, but give opponents hurlers around him, and suddenly, that curve is like Wakefield's knuckle on a good day. In all honesty, we don't have the the right guys in the rotation right now to properly augment him, so I guess we are actually better off without him. (I'd still like to bid on him, and force his price up to hurt Boston though.) As far as the Sheff to Cleveland deal, I know nothing about this guy Sowers. Is he really good? If he is like Wang, then I'd take the trade in a heartbeat. Add the (L) to that, and he sounds like a great addition to the club. Then if we got Lily or Matsuzaka? Hmm, very interesting... So then our rotation would look like: Wang Matsuzaka Lily/Sowers RJ Moose If we somehow got Lily and Matsuzaka, what about converting Johnson to a set up man? I know it sounds unorthodox, but he could make for a very interesting option along with Farnsworth to set up for Mo. Then neither of them has to pitch as many innings, and preserves some of their fragile health. I know, now I'm starting to think in terms of MLB 2k7, but it's an interesting thought.
Alio, my problem with Zito is this: he's just not that good against great offenses. His curveball does make him fun to watch on the one hand, but on the other hand he very rarely throws it for strikes. If you wanna know how to beat Zito, just do what the Tigers did in the ALCS (and the Yankees/Red Sox do to him routinely): Don't swing at his curveball unless you're in a 2 strike count and he'll be constantly down in the count 2-0 or 3-1.
I actually like Zito, but because he's a young lefty with a track record, he's going to be overpaid. Plus, if I remember correctly, Boras is his agent. If this turns into a situation like Damon, where he's expected to be pursued by a number of teams for a very large sum, but the reality is no team seems willing to show even a small commitment, then I could see the Yankees jumping in and overpaying a little to get him. But I doubt that happens here, for the reasons that I said in the first sentence. As far as Sowers go, I was just throwing his name out there as a possibility. I really can't see Cleveland trading him for Sheff, but I know that they want an upgrade on offense, and they have a lot of young players. Sowers was the #6 overall pick in the 2004 draft, and has pitched very well on every level he's been at, including a little time he spent with the Indians this past year. Like Wang, his stuff can be hittable, and he doesn't have very good strikeout rates. He's a 23 year old lefty who I would project to be a guy like Wang, which is like a 3.70-4.00 ERA. If he can develop and improve his strikeout numbers, he could turn into a very good #2 starter. We can't get married to the idea of getting Sowers, we'll probably be let down. Converting RJ to a set-up man is an idea I like, but I can't see it happening. It would be interesting, though. If we were to get a Sowers, then I'm fairly certain we wouldn't be looking at a guy like Lilly, because like I said, I can't see them moving RJ to the bullpen. But it would be cool: Wang Matsuzaka Mussina Lilly Sowers Back of the bullpen: Bruney Proctor Farnsworth RJ Rivera I like that.
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...rogers,1,630308.column?coll=cs-cubs-headlines Gary Sheffield reportedly has put both Chicago teams on the list of clubs to which he would accept a trade without a fight. The Phillies are shopping right-hander Jon Lieber, who was 9-11 with a 4.93 earned-run average this season and is due $7.5 million next year. Lieber and young pitchers Gavin Floyd and Ryan Madson could go to the Yankees in a package for Sheffield.
Gavin Floyd is the guy I was talking about the other day. Is he any good? I'm not sure how I feel about bringing back Lieber at this point. He was great the last few months with us, then for a year down in Philly, but he fell off after that. I have no idea who Madson is. I guess it really doesn't make that big a difference. Sheff is gone no matter what, so as long as we get something, it's better than the nothing we'd get if we just let him walk. I wonder if we could package Sheff and ARod for Howard. :wink:
I would say Madson and Floyd are both back of the rotation guys. Floyd is 23 and was a high draft pick, he could still develop into something a little more. Basically though, if we ended up with them for Sheff, I'd be disappointed.
Sounds like the Yankees and Mussina are close. http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/...t_id=1733239&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb As long as we get Matsuzaka, making sure Mussina is the #3, I'm not that upset with this.
That's assuming Matsuzaka makes a smooth transition. It doesn't always happen in year 1 but either way I am ok w/ Mussina coming back and I do agree I'd prefer he was our 3rd starter rather than 2nd.
Madson would be a back of the rotation guy, but he's also proven that he can be a more effective setup man than he is a starter. If the Yankees traded for him I'd like to imagine that they'd stick him in the bullpen. Supposedly Andy Pettitte is interested in returning to New York. I'd certainly take him over a Gil Meche or Ted Lilly (though I am quite fond of Lilly) and I could see Pettitte having an El Duque-like rennaissance in a return to Yankee Stadium.
Wow, 11 million is still a lot to pay Moose. Granted, he's coming cheaper than at 17, but that's still a big chunk of change for a guy who is at best a #3 at this point. Then again, bringing Matsuzaka, and taking junc's point into account, maybe Moose will continue his newfound demeanor of mentoring the younger pitchers. Wow, I can't believe I'm actually saying this during football season, but for the first time in ages, I am actually anxiously awaiting the start of the next baseball season. It's going to be interesting.
Is that serious? I would take Petitte back in a heartbeat! Can you imagine the crowd at Yankee Stadium his first game back? WoW!
It's serious according to CNNSI (which is an infinitely better site than ESPN.com, btw.) http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/11/03/friday.scoop/index.html The Pettitte part starts at the bottom of page one and continues onto the next page. The only problem is that it appears likely that if Pettitte leaves for New York, then Clemens will be headed to Boston.
Per Rotoworld: "According to the New York Post, rumors of a three-way Gary Sheffield deal involving the Yankees, Indians and Padres was inaccurate. The Indians have checked in on Sheffield's availability, but it's assumed the Yankees would prefer to get him out of the AL once they move him. The Phillies and Cubs are believed to be interested."
I can deal with Roger in Boston if we get back a big-time lefty like Pettite. That's defintely fine by me. As far as Sheff, I don't understand why the Yanks are so eager to get him out of the AL. On a division rival, sure, I can see keeping him away, but on the Indians? Big deal. As long as it isn't with Boston, Toronto, or Baltimore, there's no reason not to pursue the best deal possible in exchange for him. Given his health this past year, and the fact that he isn't exactly young, I wouldn't fear him playing more than 100 games next year anyway. Whatever, I guess. At this point, I just want the pitching fixed. By any means necessary. We just have to have faith in Cashman to get us over the hump.
per kffl.com Yankees | Sheffield's option exercised; seven teams interested in him Sun, 5 Nov 2006 13:37:50 -0800 Jon Heyman, of SI.com, reports that the New York Yankees have exercised the $13 million option on 1B/OF Gary Sheffield's contract, and the team hopes that their decision to pick up the option will spur one of the seven teams interested in him to make a better trade offer. The Baltimore Orioles, Chicago Cubs, Cleveland Indians, Detroit Tigers, Houston Astros, Philadelphia Phillies, San Diego Padres and Texas Rangers have expressed interest in Sheffield. The Yankees are looking for a middle-of-the-rotation starter, a quality reliever, or a prospect package in return, and the team has no intention of keeping him. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Astros | Team reportedly not interest in Dunn anymore Sun, 5 Nov 2006 12:58:51 -0800 The Houston Astros no longer have any interest in Cincinnati Reds OF Adam Dunn, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com. The team had been looking for a power hitter, but is now more likely to pursue free agent outfielders Carlos Lee or Alfonso Soriano, or acquire New York Yankees OF Gary Sheffield via trade. Among the Astros' concerns with Dunn were his high strikeout totals (194 during the 2006 season), his defense, and his conditioning, along with the long-term presence of 1B Lance Berkman, which would have prevented the team from moving Dunn to first base.
Pettitte isn't a big time lefty anymore but he's always welcome back here and I'd have no problem signing him back for a couple of years.
My brothers were arguing the same point against me yesterday. I am not so sure. I really think if Pettite returns here, he will kick ass again. Of course, that's simply my opinion, but I am willing to take the risk with him.
Again? Other than two or three years, he never kicked ass here. In his prime, he was an above average pitcher that happened to be a part of a great dynasty, which severly overrated him. If he was only above average (as well as hit and miss in the playoffs) in his prime, what can we expect now that he's 34 and has elbow issues?
