Over the Cap: Thoughts on the State of the Jets

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by klecko73, Nov 27, 2015.

  1. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,452
    Likes Received:
    9,491
    As a longtime Jet fan I don't know how you can disagree with much of what he says.

    These are not easy to stomach but are likely true:

    1) We need to trade Wilkerson.
    • Richardson is better and Williams looks on target to be at least as good.
    • Like the author said, we need help at A LOT of positions.
    2) Revis is on the decline and will likely be declining more rapidly going forward.
    • I love Revis, look at my username. Fact of the matter though is that CB is a position predicated on speed and quickness and those are the first things to go as you age. Revis is 30.
    • This should have been obvious after our game against the Bills. The stats don't show you this but Sammy Watkins was absolutely shaking Revis out of his shoes. He got out of his breaks WAY too quickly for Revis.
    • Thinking about trading Revis while he has any value left shouldn't be out of the question - contract may complicate this but idk.
    • People close to the Patriots have said the Pats thought Revis was on the decline and sold high on him. I hate the Patriots as much as anyone but to act like they're not usually correct on this sort of stuff is ignorant.
    3) It's hard to argue this isn't at least a 3 year rebuild before we can compete for a title.
    • Look at how much help we need on offense.
    • Our offensive line is either old or bad, in general. The same could be said of our WR's outside of Decker who will be in the old category in about a year.
    • We have just about no talent at TE unless Amaro shows something next year.
    • Obviously we have nothing at QB long term unless Geno or Petty come out of nowhere which is like waiting to get rich by playing the lottery.
     
    #41 REVISion, Nov 28, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
    NCJetsfan likes this.
  2. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,452
    Likes Received:
    9,491
    You're acting like Revis will maintain this level for 2+ more years - it's asinine. He's 30 years old. CB's are almost never good past that age. To add to that, who cares if he's good for 2 more years? We aren't winning a Super Bowl in that timeframe, our offense just isn't nearly good enough.

    Think about the future. Trying to continuously salvage the present since our good years ending in 2010 has gotten our team into the current mess. Either we tread water forever in mediocrity or do a legit rebuild and actually stand a chance of molding a consistent contender.
     
    #42 REVISion, Nov 28, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
    NCJetsfan likes this.
  3. The Uniform Bomber

    The Uniform Bomber Spivey's Agent

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    177
    Just keep in mind that if - and it's a huge IF that I'm not realistically expecting - Petty starts next year and develops quickly into someone legit, then that would allow the FO to operate very flexibly because of Petty's cheap salary numbers.
     
  4. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,452
    Likes Received:
    9,491
    Sorry but I feel like that's an enormous enough "If" that it's not even worth talking about.
     
  5. The Uniform Bomber

    The Uniform Bomber Spivey's Agent

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    177
    Haha ok, so then don't talk about it.
     
  6. pdxdrew

    pdxdrew Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    4,051
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    It will be really interesting to see what Macc does if we don't make the playoffs. If Fitz can't get us over the hump, then I honestly think he should just acquire as many draft picks as possible. Blow it up. There will soon be too many holes now to cover.
     
  7. Barry the Baptist

    Barry the Baptist Hello son, would you like a lolly?
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Messages:
    17,747
    Likes Received:
    1,579
    I do think the Coples over DeCastro pick will haunt us for a while. We needed a guard and the last thing we needed was another defensive lineman yet Tanny and Rex were in love with a guy who couldn't even make it to the end of his contract with the team.
     
  8. LIJetsFan

    LIJetsFan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    151
    Yeah I remember pulling hard for DeCastro that year. So many posters keep saying stuff like you can't take a guard that low but I think you can take a sure thing anytime. I know there is no such thing as a sure thing but DeCastro was as close as it gets.
     
  9. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,452
    Likes Received:
    9,491
    I don't think we should have the expectation of making the playoffs and I don't think it should affect what we do in the future. Fitz is not the long term answer and may not even be the short term answer.

    Our situation on offense is really pretty scary if you break it down by position:

    1) Marshall and Decker are great but are both getting old, past them we don't have much at WR.

    2) We have next to nothing at QB.

    3) Our two best O-linemen are in the final stages of their careers and the offense entirely falls apart if Mangold isn't playing. The rest of the oline is mediocre at best.

    4) RB - I actually think we're alright here. It's not a terribly important position and I think Powell is underrated.

    5) Unless Amaro impresses A LOT next year we have almost no talent at TE.

    This sounds pessimistic, and it is, but is it false? I think this is what happens when you don't use a single first rounder on offense for 6 straight years.
     
  10. pdxdrew

    pdxdrew Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    4,051
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    You can't survive in the NFL if you don't draft well. You can screw up just about everywhere else (minus coaching) but not that. I don't think it's any surprise that one of the first thing Macc did was fire much of the scouting staff.
     
    The Uniform Bomber likes this.
  11. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,452
    Likes Received:
    9,491
    The fact that Mac fired much of the scouting staff makes me somewhat optimistic. He seems like a sharp guy, I just hope we give him a bit of time to work and don't get into a situation like the Browns where the GM/HC gigs are a revolving door.
     
    The Uniform Bomber likes this.
  12. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    33,751
    Likes Received:
    32,825
    Did Revis decline you for an autograph? Sorry bud, but he's still playing at an All-Pro level, he just can no longer man up the top receivers in the league by himself. There's no shame in this. Very few corners in history have been able to do this and the fact that Revis was able to do it at an All-Pro level for five years is ridiculous. He needs to be reinvented and early in the season it looks like he was being used in a fashion that would maximize his brain and limit his declining physical skills.

    If he plays in a zone underneath coverage with help over the top he's going to be a turnover machine ala Charles Woodson in Green Bay. He's also going to be a very good free safety like Woodson has turned into, because he's as good as recognizing the play and route combinations as anyone in the league.

    I didn't want to sign him for the money he got because of the way it'd handcuff the rest of our roster. You can dig deep into my post history if you're curious. With that being said, it's too late now. We can't cut him without taking a tremendous cap hit until after 2017, and we conceivably could cut him if we really needed to and only eat $8 million after next season although that won't happen.

    The priority is now finding a way to be able to keep Mo Wilk with Revis' contract on the table and finding someway to rebuild the offense in the process. It's going to be very difficult, but without a top paid quarterback on the roster and the likely restructuring or cutting of D'Brick, and hopeful restructuring of Mangold, we'll be saving a ton of money. We're just about at our cap capacity for next season. Cut Cromartie, cut Cumberland, cut Pace, and cut Kerley (if we need to), and we'll be freeing up a lot of space, about $12-15 million at my calculations.

    The problem is rebuilding the offensive line, something that needs to be done in the draft. The fact that we have 0 potential starters on the team from the 09-15 drafts is what is causing the offensive line to deteriorate in front of our eyes. The addage with this team has always seemingly been hey as long as we have Mangold and D'Brick we'll be solid. Now that they're slowly declining, Idzik & Tannebaum has left the squad a mess on that front.

    And as Tony said, you don't find quality centers and tackles on the market. Rodney Hudson was an anomaly last year and look what happened. A good center, but probably not the best at his position received the most lucrative center contract in history. It's going to be incredibly tough without drafting a couple lineman high and having them pan out immediately.
     
    Will-I-Am-Not likes this.
  13. ConcordeChops

    ConcordeChops 2018 International Poster Award Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    6,998
    Likes Received:
    5,422
  14. FJF

    FJF 2018 MVP Joe Namath Award Winner

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    27,721
    Likes Received:
    31,387
    mike mac be like
    [​IMG]
     
  15. wewantsapp

    wewantsapp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,344
    Likes Received:
    1,022
    DeCastro was compared to Steve Hutchinson. He was referred to as 1 of the "safest picks". We ended up choosing 1 of the "riskiest" in Coples. Hopefully, the new FO/CS doesnt need to learn from their own mistakes ---- there is plenty to learn from the previous regime.
     
  16. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    36,670
    Likes Received:
    14,472
    The thing that's important to remember about this Jets team is that it is probably a better team than 2016 and likely 2017. A lot of money was spent this year to plug specific holes and much of that went to players likely to decline over the next few seasons. 3 very good signings are not in that category, those being Carpenter, Gilchrist and Skrine. Those 3 guys all look to be prime time through 2017.

    The argument for trading Wilkerson is based largely on what his cap space and trade value should represent for the Jets given that they have the best overall defensive line talent in the NFL right now, with the Texans and J.J. Watt representing more impact but nobody representing better depth.
     
    Jonathan_Vilma likes this.
  17. tomdeb

    tomdeb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,425
    Likes Received:
    3,164
    I like your proposed 2016 draft--we don't need any WR or DL
     
  18. vokab206

    vokab206 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2015
    Messages:
    870
    Likes Received:
    732
    Sounds like the cap may be going up $10 million next year per Schefter.
     
  19. TouchyFeely

    TouchyFeely Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2013
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    495
    We Mo-bound? I think we Mo-bound.
     
  20. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Messages:
    36,684
    Likes Received:
    30,193
    I disagree. The better teams build and keep quality OLs. They have depth, and they have replacements in place when their starters get old. The Jets haven't. Just because they didn't spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on C or LT doesn't mean they managed the OL correctly. In 2009 and 2010 they had one of, if not the best OL in the game. They should have seen the importance of the OL, but obviously didn't. hey had quality LGs for a couple of years after the Adrien Clarke disaster, then either forgot the lessons they learned or never learned the lessons. They lost a great RT in Damien Woody and failed to replace him adequately. OL can be built with mid and lower round picks too if one is a good judge of talent and knows how to develop linemen. One doesn't have to use 1st or 2nd round picks. Ducasse was a HUGE reach and a horrible pick. Tanny and Idzik either ignored or gave lip service to the OL.
    I disagree that we don't know what the Jets have in the younger guys. I think Mac, Bowles and the Jets CS knows, and knows that they have a bunch of crap. Maybe Harrison develops into at least decent depth or a quality starter. Maybe Qvale becomes a quality backup. Winters, Dozier and the rest I think are probably crap.

    I'm one who agrees that OGs shouldn't be taken with high draft picks and believe that Mac is of that opinion. I also agree that it's time for a youth movement on the OL. I believe that he will rebuild the OL and won't have to use a bunch of high draft picks to do it.
     

Share This Page