After yesterday, and having watched all our games thus far, our biggest glaring problem on this team is the Defence. We can come down on the Offesive play calling, Chad, and the running game all we want, but that is not what is placing us in the biggest jeopardy. It is our Defensive play - just awful. Bad tackling, so-so coverage, costly penalties, Can't stop the run at all, etc. Rather than complain about it, what can be done about it? I say totally abandon the 3-4 for right now and gho over to 4-3. Stack the middle of the line with meat like Rashad Moore next to Robertson and Ellis on one end and then take your pick at the other. Maybe Dave Ball in there or possibly Thomas, maybe Von Oelhoffen? Bobby Hamilton? C.J. Mosley? 3-4 late in the game is fine to mix it up, but we are not a 3-4 team. Put Vilma where he belongs: at middle linebacker. Hobson and Barton - Hobson, I like better than Barton. Maybe give Thomas some time in Barton's spot. Rhodes, a no brainer - the guy is good. Dysan has also played well. I am OK with Coleman, but Miller has been disappointing of late. I think someone else should be given a chance to step up there. Just do not take Miller off of STs - he seems awesome there. Anyone else have ideas, because what we have so far is not working?
Yea maybe drafting FB players that can play would help greatly is MHO how to fix the present train wreck In the 4-3 who would rush the passer? JV is a medicore blitzer at best, Same for Barton. Hobson is a non player so where would the PR come from in a 4-3 if your scheme was adopted?
I think we need to be playing 4-3 right now. For 5 games we have been run on, and the 3-4 just will not work with D-Rob. If Pouha and Alailefaleula weren't hurt I think one of them would be starting at NT right now. Rashad Moore has been pretty good when given a chance and I think he needs to be starting with D-Rob in the 4-3 with Ellis and Hamilton or Ball. Robertson, to me, is more of a footwork guy who gets into the backfield by sidestepping a block, not blowing through one. We don't get enough pressure from the LBs to run a good 3-4. I don't know if its the schemes or the personnell, but I am pretty surprised we are still dominantly using a 3-4 after what has been done to the defense so far this season.
4 guys on the front should be able to disrupt more than 3. We can still blitz once in while, too. I didn't necessarily say this was the answer, but what we have now is not working.
Stay in the 3-4 and teach players the system so it's just a matter of plugging gaps with decent players next year. Start Rashad Moore as the NT and bench Robertson. Realistically Robertson is gone at this point because he's lost in the 3-4 and was never an impact player in the 4-3. He makes waaaaaay too much money to be a mediocre defensive lineman. Find another player that you can slot in the 3-4 to backup Moore and not get trampled. CJ Mosley should get some downs there, he can't be worse than Robertson. Bench Justin Miller. He's an absolute waste of a spot in the defensive backfield at the moment. I can't decided if it's good or bad that he has not lost his self confidence yet because he's been about as bad as you can be without escorting the other team to the endzone. Don't even think about going to the 4-3. The future is with the 3-4 at this point and it would tell us volumes about Mangini if he gave up the future right now because he wanted to go 9-7 instead of 7-9. Just suck it up and keep teaching, that's what the franchise needs.
Fair enough. You could be right. I was getting caught up in the whole, "we might be ready now" thing. I said it a lot eariler in the year, "we weren't going to fix this thing in one year". Guess I should stick to it. The last thing I guess I reallly want to see is a D put together with bubble gum and bandaids. Maybe you are right. Robertson is definitely gone at the end of the year. Yes, Miller's bad defensive play and very poor tackling has been a real stand out.
Trade 'em for a case of Coors Light. Dick Vermiel was willing to give up most of his offense for one.
Its a little telling when the commentators for the game are pointing out what the jag's were doing to the jets defense.There were no adjustments till late in the game and even after that ,the jags adjusted there pulling guard to compensate for the jets adjustments. They were still plowing through us even after the jets adjusted . all team have a game or two like this one ,I hope this will be our last.
Well....Yes, start Moore as NT. Switch Hobson & Vilma, putting Hobson inside & putting Vilma outside. Play Barrett & Dyson at Corners. Yes....also stay in the 3-4 defense. Possibly....activate Mosely & starting across the D-Line...Ellis, Moore, & Mosley on D-Line in the 3-4 .
I've never been a huge fan of the 3-4 but its in the hands of the coach. There's no point going back to the 4-3 now since we are trying to implement the 3-4 for the long-run. Vilma, like any LB, is going through some difficulties in the 3-4. He'll be fine once the personnel on the D-line improves. You don't build a 3-4 D overnight.
Heres the thing. I think Mangini is content to play out the year in this system, see who takes to it, see who progresses in it, see what parts he needs, and look towards the future. I think its gotta be obvious to him that right now, next week, wed have a better chance of winning if we switch to the 4-3, but thats not the team hes trying to build. Hes looking at the long term picture, not short term, even if it means that occasionally this team will get stomped out like it did in jacksonville. In the meantime, guys like Vilma and Robertson are getting all reps in the 3-4, and theyre hopefully learning their roles and getting better at their jobs, because if they dont, they wont last. And I will say that Vilma has clearly not progressed in this system. Go back to the jacksonville game and look at some of the plays down near the goal line... there was one where you can clearly see in the replay that he runs right past the gap that the halfback is running up and shoots through the next gap over. Does this mean that hes just not suited for it, I dont know, but I know that it definetely means that right now, he isnt getting it done.
That can also be a clear blitz call. Vilma needs to be moved around in the 3-4. It's too easy to neutralize, not only him, but damn near any linebacker in the 3-4 if you always know where they're flowing to the play. That's why teams like the Steelers and Patriots run it effectively because they move everyone around. They show 4-3 fronts as well, which confuses the offense.
Bench Thomas. He misses so many tackles and when he blitzes he has no pass rush. Complete bust. I would much rather see Chatham out there hustling and playing hardnose football.
Wait till next year. Mangini isn't going to blow up the system. The guys he's keeping need to get seasoned in it. The hold overs for next year will be an asset getting the new players up to speed on what they need to do and how to do it. As The Great Quitter himself once said: You are what your record is. We're a ~.500 team with no defence and a shoddy running game. Baby steps.
Since we're REBUILDING, I don't see Mangini making too many changes here. As Stu stated, he'll wait and see who adapts and cut who doesn't. Why Bryan Thomas is still on this team is a mystery. I just don't see him here next year. I also see DRob's shelf life getting shorter by the game as well. Watch what positions get drafted or FA'd and that will tell you whose walkin the plank. For now? Grin and bear it. Good thing more of you are buying into the rebuilding theme instead of the "playoff ready" nonsense. It's all part of rebuilding and it's not gonna be pretty but it will work. Patience people..
The Jets had the same thing happen when Cottrell took over the defense with Herm, and even with Donnie Henderson. Everyone was saying that the Jets should run a 3-4 because they had a good group of LB's after Parcells/Groh. Coaches have thier philosophy and will stick with it until either they get current players to adapt or get new players to run it. You would never see a west coast offense guy abandon thier scheme. We need to be patient and only hope this crew can get better this year, knowing it will be addressed in the off season.
Here's what I always wonder- why implement the 3-4 NOW if it's clear that you don't have the personnel for it? Would the Jets have been better off with running a 4-3 for this season, knowing that it's a rebuilding year and that the pieces of the puzzle for a 4-3 are there, as opposed to the 3-4 where we are sorely lacking? Maybe Thomas/Ellis at ends, with rotation of Ball/Kimo and some fatasses in the middle would have opened things up a little more than we are seeing right now. Who knows, maybe there would have even been a pass-rush!
KOZ, that made me scratch my head too. And as a result, key players like Vilma isnt shining. He constantly has a lineman in his face. Ray Lewis complained about this last yr. He had 3 hulking bodies in front of him during their dominant years that promised him "no o-linemen will touch you." The personnel we have is strictly for the 4-3. It seems like theres no hope for this D to get this 3-4 formation in this season. And it sucks b/c our offense is finally looking better (excluding last sunday).
Keep the 3-4. Bench Von "Old" Hoffen, Hobson and Miller. Move Robertson to the RDE to replace Von "Old" Hoffen. Start Moore at NT, Chatham at ROLB and Barrett at RCB. The starters would be: LDE-Ellis NT-Moore RDE-Robertson LOLB-Thomas LILB-Barton RILB-Vilma ROLB-Chatham LCB-Dyson SS-Rhodes FS-Coleman RCB-Barrett These changes will not make us a great defense but it would definately stop the bleeding until next off-season.
