I totally agree that what makes OLBs effective as pass rushers (and play makers in general), is speed. Even at 270-280 (or more) for an OLB, OL are still gonna outweight them by 20-30 pounds or more. Adding that extra weight to OLBs isn't enough to make them strong enough to beat OL consistently. What it does do is rob them of whatever speed they might have had (or lighter weight other players would have) and takes away what makes them effective as pass rushers. It defeats the whole purpose of the 3-4 alignment. That system is designed as a "whole" and the concept is that the OLBs are the primary play makers in the front 7. Rex's system totally corrupts and destroys the base concept of that alignment. I don't think there's any way that KVN is going to last deep into the second unless he has a bad Combine. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see him go mid 1st round. OLBs are ALWAYS at a premium in the draft. Factor in that he excels in coverage, and he's probably going to zoom up the rankings. How many OLBs in recent years excelled in pass coverage? I can't think of a single one. I'd almost give my left nut to see the Jets draft that kid. I don't think just being fast and 6'3" is enough to make an excellent NFL OLB. They need to have great instincts, strength, pass rush moves other than just speed, be able to "bend" coming around the end, and imo, should be in the 235 - 250 range, 255 tops. To that end, I can't see Telvin Smith making it as a 3-4 OLB, and I definitely don't want the Jets to draft him unless they're planning on converting to a 4-3 alignment full time or see him as a potential SS. He's more SS weight or 4-3 OLB weight than 3-4 OLB weight imo.
First, it's nice to know that I'm not alone in my thinking. Second, that's the rub with the way Rex runs his D. Initially at least, Rex didn't see his DEs as being pass rushers. I remember his saying that their first and foremost responsibility was setting the edge and stopping the run. I also remember his saying that he favored pressuring the QB with DBs because they were lighter and faster than LBs and could get to the QB faster, thus he created all those exotic blitzes to generate pressure. Of course, as we all know, other teams caught on to those blitzes and they rarely work any more except for teams with lousy OLs. I think that's why the Jets took Wilk and Richardson...Rex realized he needed to do something different to generate consistent pressure. Sadly, he still didn't want "true" OLBs, but decided instead to try to generate the pass rush via the DL, again playing "mad scientist." I just hope that the light will go on (or better yet, already has!), that he needs lighter, faster OLBs on top of the pressure that his DL is creating. If he adds that, I think the Jets D can become as dominant, and perhaps even better than the Seahawks' D.
It's nice to know that I'm not alone in my thinking. I expected flames, and may still get them, but at least I know there are some others who see things the same way.
Check my posts in this forum alone. I'm not even talking about my other posts in other forums. This forum alone will give you a very clear picture of what I have been saying all along; I've been literally SCREAMING from the bottom of my lung for the past few years for OLB picks. I was just too fed up with this Eagle front impersonating 3-4. By the way, if you have paid attention to the way I approached the draft game, it should have given you a very clear idea about this. I've been double-dipping OLBs and WRs almost religiously - in the hope that Jets would 1. trade down and 2. follow the suit like I do. As I would say in any situation, there are two factors: discriminating factors and distinguishing factors. Height, girth, speed and quickness [in change of direction] are all discriminating factors; i.e. once you have enough of it to make plays in the NFL, then that's all there is to it. The more important factors are the mental aptitude. This includes: 1. attitude. 2. smart 3. toughness. These are the BARE minimum of what OLB must have - these are the things you just cannot coach. And, on Telvin Smith - if Jets ended drafting him, the hope was that, he would gain lean muscle mass of about 35 lbs, and become the terror that he can be. He's still a young kid, that can grow. [But then, if his college program - FSU - failed it, then I don't see how much of an impact an NFL regime could have either.]
Just looking at things and how the AFC East is, I think his emphasis on building pass rush via centre of the DL was to combat Tom Brady specifically. The best way to disrupt Brady is pressure up the middle. I just hope Rex sees the big need for an edge rusher to really complement that DL that's been built. I think he recognized it in bringing in Barnes, but with that ACL injury a value pick spent there would be well worth it. Regarding Telvin Smith, would he project better as a 3-4 ILB than OLB? Just curious since he seemed to flash coverage skills in the Senior Bowl, and having an ILB with decent pass rushing capabilities would be interesting as well.
I would like to see the team invest in a young pass-rusher at some point in this draft. I wouldn't consider it an urgent need, like play-makers on offense, however. Coples will be on one side and Calvin Pace will likely be resigned after a nice year. Don't forget that Antwan Barnes is also on the roster. With these three, I think it would be a great situation to bring in a guy to develop and work in slowly and situationally. Jeremiah Attoachu, Carl Bradford, DeMarcus Lawrence are just a couple names that come to mind. I think Rex would like Bradford's potential versatility as well. It will be interesting to see how Quinton Coples plays next year. Hopefully he can turn in a double-digit sack year and pick up right where he left off in December. I also always wonder what Rex thinks of some of the guys on the back-end of the roster such as Troy Davis and Jermaine Cunningham. He seems to find guys like this that turn into starters and stars not infrequently.
I completely agree with the guys you mentioned, although I would like to add Christian Jones,Jordan Tripp and Jackson Jeffcoat(I believe he could easily transform into an OLB in the NFL) Honestly I would love it if the Jets drafted Telvin Smith and moved him to Strong Safetty...He's 6"3 218 with exceptional ball & coverage skills. He has a very high motor and he could be the Jets Kam Chancellor" if you will....I am VERY HIGH on Telvin Smith...Kid's gonna be a beast!...The last LB we drafted from FSU was pretty decent I believe...His name is Marvin Jones.
What? Who has he found like that? I can't think of a single player. Rex may be creative and a good teacher himself, but he doesn't have the talent for discovering talented players. Some of you guys give Rex waaaaay too much credit.
Marvin Jones was decent, but that's it, and he was a very high draft pick (#4 I think). He was a HUGE disappointment for the Jets and never came close to living up to his billing.
These are the big three. In terms of role players on the team, there's Garrett McIntyre and several CBs that have played decently, all undrafted over the past few seasons.
1 overlooked player who is listed as a DE but could easily convert to OLB is Virginia Tech's James Gayle 6' 4" 253 lbs 4.58 40 time he has strong hands and good bend around the corner I believe he will be a better pro than college player.
For the umpteenth time, I do not want a DE convert. NO. Have they played coverage in high school and college? If the answer is NO, then you know what that means. What's hurting Ryan's defense is not the pass rush OR the players with their hands on the dirt. It is the pass coverage at the second line that hurt them the most. Wheel route that goes for 76 yards should happen in Madden, not in real NFL. Okay?
All Nfl schemes have quirks.I dont hear anyone bashing pete carroll for prefering taller corners. Rex's scheme is not strictly a 3-4, it is multiple.What that means from a persisnnel perspective is that you need players who can be versatile & fill different roles.This notion Is particularly prevalent with OLBs as they must be able to set the edge,rush, cover & put hand in dirt. Furthermore the edge can be a weak spot in rex's 34 look bc the olbs are quite often isolated with no protection within its alignment.It makes perfect sense to target bigger bodies who are not only scheme diverse but also can be left on an island to anchor the flanks
That's the best way to pressure any QB. IMO that's why the two most important positions in the traditional or basic 3-4 D alignment are the pass rushing OLBs and the NT, not the DEs, or the DBs or ILBs. In a 4-3 base the DEs and MLB are traditionally thought to be the most important positions. I agree in hoping that Rex has learned the importance of the edge rushing OLBs. If not, I don't think we're ever gonna win anything with Rex as HC. I don't think Smith would be better as a 3-4 ILB. In Rex's system they have to plug the gaps and generally take on OGs. Smith would have no chance vs OGs. Someone said that they thought he would make a great SS. Perhaps so. He's got the right build for it. If the Jets could get him in the 4th round or lower as a SS, I'd be happy with that.
snacks I may give you since we don't know for certain how much input Rex had with Tanny on drafts, and I figure we can credit Rex with helping develop snacks even if he didn't help Tanny spot him. Scott and Leonhard were found by Ozzie Newsome when Rex was the DL coach. Rex had nothing to do with either of their being found or developed.
As I told flajetfan, you're wrong about Scott and Leonard. Rex had absolutely nothing to do with their being signed or developed. That was Ozzie Newsome and the Raven's Scouting Dept. Rex was the DL coach and didn't work with LBs or DBs, he wasn't the DC there until a year or two before he came to the Jets. I doubt Rex had anything to do with finding McIntrye or the CBs. He has proven that identifying players is not where his talents lie.
IMO it doesn't. They don't have to be 270 or 280 to tackle a RB, and sure can't drop into coverage effectively or rush the QB. The proof is there in black and white. Versatility means squat when they aren't all that effective regardless of front or alignment. Give me a straight D alignment, be it 3-4 or 4-3, any day of the week. There's less for the players to have to think about or work on in terms of responsibilities and schemes, and can focus on doing what they're supposed to do better. The other glaring issue is that players who can play equally well in various fronts and alignments are very rare, otherwise, there'd be a lot more DC using multiple fronts. What's the point of trying to run a D where you can never get enough of the right kind of players to make it ultimately successful? Yes, all defensive alignments and all offensive alignments have their weak points or vulnerabilities that can be exploited. It's one thing for opposing OCs to find the quirks and holes when on your D you have fast, athletic players who are perfectly suited to that alignment, and quite another when you have ill-fitting and slow players. IMO Rex just isn't dealing with reality. He doesn't see that his slow, heavy LBs are not getting the job done and their D gets beaten because of the glaring weakness in the middle and lack of real, consisten pass rush.
You definitely have a point about pass coverage and having to make the conversion. That's the reason I really have never liked the 3-4 alignment. Quite often your 3-4 DEs were DTs in college, so they were a conversion project too. That's counting on almost half of your starting D unit to have to convert. Fortunately, more and more college teams are playing 3-4 D alignments, which makes it a lot better, but still there are some excellent OLB prospects that played DE in college that I wouldn't rule out.
