The point that Mark was in negotiations to be trade, fails to still be seen, I see. People are so blinded by Tebow hate they can't even remember the contract situations and the money issues that the Jets are trying to figure out/deal with. You can not have Sanchez and Tebow on the same team with both of their contracts. If you keep Sanchez but then have to bench him because he is doing terrible, putting Tebow in it presents problems if Tebow delivers. I don't care if you think Tebow can play well or not. If Tebow then lead the Jets to wins, the Jets had/have to pay him out. Are people so freaking caught up in this ridiculous Tebow is terrible fight they can not even realize this came down to business! The Jets can not afford to pay out Sanchez contract and then pay out another player because they are guaranteed money if they lead a team to wins. Especially when the Jets owe the Broncos money from Tebow's original trade. It doesn't matter who is sitting behind Sanchez. The fact still stands that if you bench Sanchez and then have to pay a player for getting W's, they can't do it. As a GM, you need to clear space. So, this is where we have the Jets trying to unload Sanchez's onto the Bucs (which we know never went through). Even if it didn't go through, you have to give Idzik credit for trying to get rid of the more expensive contract out of the two key players in this situation. Nobody wants to see it that way, because God forbid the Tebow rumors of him being traded were just that... rumors. As a business transaction, you are going to want to pay out the QB that is less expensive. Even if you don't really want that QB (Tebow) because of his intangibles. If you can get rid of the contract that is taking up the most money with the salary cap in mind, but keep the less expensive at least for a year, then you deal with what you have. I can see Idzik possible trying to at least unload either Tebow or Sanchez to then keep one of them on for at least another year, until he can trade for whatever he wants for his reasons. This comes to money. Cold hard money. Money that the Jets don't have. It doesn't matter about anything else. If it did, and if all the claims in here were true about Tebow was not able to play at an NFL level, then why did the Jets trade for him in the first place? As I said before, Tim Tebow is Jet on the roaster until further notice. You can talk all you want about how bad he is, but he may very well be on the Jets roaster when regular season starts. He may very well not be as well. Until a trade or release is given, people need to understand the contracts and what money is there. Because once again the Jets are starting out on a bad foot. You have 5 QBs in the line up. What that does for anyone, is beyond me. I would be more concerned about Rex Ryan, who btw as maybe this year before he gets booted. He is in a rude awakening that the FO is going to be running this team and not him anymore. And thank God! If a real QB competition can actually happen with whomever the 1st and 2nd stringer are. Maybe some football games can be won here.
You must have forgotten how terrible the Broncos were before Tebow started. They were 1-4 in 2011 and 4-12 in 2010. So yeah, I think he can take a terrible team start winning. There is more evidence to support my claim than yours. There is no factual example of Tim Tebow's teams losing more than winning. Zero. I guess we should believe your hunches in spite of overwhelming factual evidence.
Most of what I read said Tebow didn't get paid by the win, he simply needed to take something like 60% of the offensive snaps over the whole season. There was no danger of that happening late in the season last year, even if they suddeny decided to put him in there and he won 2 or 3 of the last 3 games. They could have started him for half the season, and it would have been debatable if he could have reached the 60%. (Especially if he leads the league in three and outs again like he did in Denver.)
Yep, I remember. I also remember the 1-4 finish when the playoffs were in doubt. Only got in on the third tiebreaker because the AFC West was as equally inept as he was. couldn't even beat Orton down the stretch when the Chiefs managed 7 points. Big whoop. his record is 9-7. 5 of those wins were bailouts by a defense allowing 15 points or less while he spent the day putting the ball into the dirt and punting. Kyle Orton was 23-2 when that happened. A bum off the street could probably win a few games that way.
I would take Tim Tebow over the vast majority of QBs in this league for one reason alone: Intangibles. Tebow has this unwritten ability to will teams to victory. If I were Rex, I would start Tim Tebow this year, without a doubt. The guy just KNOWS how to win.
Well, considering he was handed a 1-4 team, and based on his winning percentage in the NFL, it is more likely that the team would have been 3-2 instead of 1-4, essentially negating your point that they required a tie breaker. Fox is as much to blame for the loss to the Chiefs as anyone. When you only call 8 passing plays in a game, you become very predictable. Bottom line: with Orton, the Broncos don't win the division or make the playoffs without a switch to Tebow under center. Then I guess the NFL should hire bums off the street then. Is that what you are suggesting? IMO, he wasn't bailed out at all. The defense played well and they were team victories. If the defense holds the opposition to .0001 points, the offense still has to score .0002 points to win the game. Now, if the defense was scoring lots of points on pick 6's and fumble 6's, that would be a different case. We all know, however, that the 4th quarter was Tebow Time. He actively won games. He wasn't a bystander, he was the impetus for those comebacks.
Ummmm.... Mr. "just the Facts...." He did not call just 8 passes in that game. Tebow went 6 for 22. For a whopping 27.2 completion percentage. Just over one in four. That isn't counting the times a pass was called and Tebow made a run for it, which he did on a few occaisions, losing a fumble in one instance. You are also speaking about how the Broncos don't win the division without a switch at QB. We don't know that, that is speculation... opinion. Kyle Orton is 23-2 when a team gives up 15 or less and the Denver defense did that six times. The Broncos won the division in a three way tiebreaker with an 8-8 record, and counting the one win in the first 5 games and we have what likely amounts to 6 or 7 wins from those alone. We only need to get a win agains Minnesota, Oakland, or any of the three teams Tebow lost to at the end to match that. Not out of the realm of possibility that it could have been done with Orton, but I'll admit it is just a matter of opinion. Not factual. But it is plausible they could still have gone to the playoffs with Tebow on the bench for that reason. Also, a guy who claims to deal only in facts, should not be saying the Broncos would have been 3-2 with Tebow instead of 1-4. So no point is "negated" as you say, because he could have just as easily went 0-5 the way he was throwing. There is NOTHING "factual" the quoted text above. Even the 8 pass plays called was for a different game. Not the 7 to 3 game I was referring to. The 8 pass attempt game happened earlier, and they only stuck with that because KC didn't bother to stop the run. Why air it out if the Chiefs are gonna let them run? If that is your belief, then that is fine. Just stop saying you deal ONLY with facts when 99% of what you just posted was speculation. Of course not, and you know it. It was just a figure of speech, but I will clarify for those too slow to understand sarcasm. Just saying, if Orton can pst 23-2, then there really was nothing special about Tebow doing it. I think just about every QB in the league would have got wins in that situation. Also, hilarious, after spouting off a lot of opinion as if it were "fact" you call me out for making an opinion. I never said Tebow didn't do anything at all, but that 4th quarter magic only matterd because the defense covered his ass the whole freaking day keeping him in the game until "Tebow Time" came out. None of that mattered against teams like the Patriots because the game was over by the end of the first quarter. Why? Because Tebow kept punting the ball back to Brady after 3 to 5 plays and the defese wasn't going to be able to carry him for 3 1/2 quarters with that kind of firepower. True, an offense would only need .0002 points to win, but in extremely low scoring games, credit goes to the defense... not the guy who only bothered to show up in the game for 5 minutes. To Tebow's credit, he had his best game in his career against Pittsburgh, but that was one game surrounded by many piss poor ones. I'm thinking the one good day was an anomole since it was the only one he had in a MONTH.
What good are intangibles without tangibles? Dude can't hit the broad side of a barn or do most of the conventional stuff. All this intangible and running stuff is BONUS for a good QB. But for Tebow, it is all he has. It just isn't enough, and that is a major reason he looks like a QB without a home in the NFL. Tebow is just one of those guys who are all intangible, few measurables, that people love to root for, but I could personally live without. In the end, talent wins out and Tim Tebow doesn't have the talent to be an NFL QB.
It has been weighed out. Tim has started 16 games in the NFL and won 9. Good for him, he and Vince Young will be able to leave the game as QBs that "just win." Tim played terribly in some of the wins and even worse in some of the losses. Tim's lows were not just personal worsts, they were historically bad. Tim's completion percentage in 2011 was among the worst going back several decades. It has been weighed, the guy can be effective carrying the ball in some scenarios. His individual performances indicate he is not deserving of playing QB before the last 5 minutes of any game. He did play a few complete games, not good enough for a 4-year SEC player going into his 4th year as a pro. He got his shot, no one appeared to be too impressed. Some other shitty players get longer chances some get less, so what. How many games has Matt Flynn started after his one good game? Matt Leinart? Colt McCoy. Tim is now among them, not treated any worse, just treated like any other scrub who played on a decent team. Sorry he let you guys down.
I agree that they were bottom of the barrel. I know this is a Jets forum so I will be brief: Tebow fans deny or won't acknowledge that the team was on an upswing and Tim was along for the ride: The Broncos drafted the defensive rookie of the year in 2011. The Broncos finally had a healthy Demariyus Thomas and Eric Decker to start the season. They were playing with a new head coach that had no training camp to teach his defensive philosophy. They had a new VP of Operations overseeing things. They drafted the best run blocker available in the draft (don't care about your thoughts or mine here.) Knowshon Moreno was supplanted by new free agent acquisition Willis McGahee and the running game changed for the better here. All of these things were done separate of Tebow and provided the base for what became a 13-3 team last year. They were huge positive steps for organization. Tim had the benefit of Kyle Orton nosediving and stepping in as the team improved. Remember what Tim's record was with a shittier team/organization in 2010?? I do, it was 1-3Where was the magic then? It came after the organization made some serious improvements to the rest of the team, Tim was probably the 11th best player on the offense but kudos to him for keeping Brady Quinn off the field.
DT didnt start the season I believe he played week 6 or so. The new head coach didnt have a training camp neither did tebow with the starters until he was put in. He was 1-2 in 2010 The team did not improve until week 7 with tebow as the QB. The team stunk and had the worst record for a couple years. After those transactions they still were bottom of the barrel. He came in a helped the team do some things. The philosophy of the team was to keep it low scoring and they did that. The cat won't be a starter or can never play again but being objective says he got some wins and can be a decent backup.
There's no "hit" in actual money with him being on the roster. If there were a "hit" that can be avoided, he would have already been cut. The only thing he gets is is regular season pay as the weeks go by in 2013, and if they cut him that stops. If anything, cutting him now would absorb the cap hit -- all of his previous signing bonuses would be charged to the Jets this year. That's why they don't cut him yet -- if they can just trade him for a cup of coffee, that cap hit goes away to another team.
Inversely, that's one reason no team will trade for Tebow -- if they have any interest at all, they can get him after he's cut, and take no accumulated cap hit.
That is probably one reason, but I look around and realize that if a team thinks a QB might be worth anything at all, teams will pay through the nose for them. Kevin Kolb went for quite a bit to go to Arizona a couple years ago. Matt Flynn fetched a really good price after his one game wonder. Seahawks got quite a bit for him in trade, and he likely makes a much bigger cap hit than Tebow would. Alex Smith went in a nice deal. Very expensive too. Carson Palmer who is on his last leg in the NFL went in a deal for decent pick swap and was due for 13 million this year, but renegotiated for a 2 year 16 million dollar year. Every one of those will be a much larger cap hit than Tebow would be, especially if Tebow doesn't play a down. So, while it indeed is a factor, it isn't exactly backbreaking. I think it ranks relatively low on the totem pole of reasons the phone hasn't been ringing in the Jets front office compared to the circus and his mediocrity as a passer. If he were half as good as you think he is or is going to be, teams would be offerring their first born to bring in the most popular player in the NFL who does nothing but just wins.
Okay that makes sense. Thanks for the information. I was under the impression that if Tebow is still on the team after draft day, there would be a cap hit involved.
