Because he has to come off the field on 3rd downs always, short yardage always and in goal line situations. I don't think its too much to ask to have a starting RB that the Jets can keep on the field in those crucial situations. Looking at the stats like that is a flawed way of judging him anyway as the Jets primary focus is running the football. Use your eyes - alot of those yards came in garbage time or against garbage teams.
Tough to argue with a lot of the points in the article. I thought Mike Lombardi made a good point about our rushing offense last year. When Greene was in, defenses knew it was most likely a run up the middle. When LT was in, defenses knew it was most likely some sort of outside run. Hopefully Greene will show some extra burst this year and break some outside, or McKnight will prove he can handle more carries as well as tough inside runs.
He's a 2 down back...yes. But that doesn't mean he "isn't hacking it" it just means he is limited in his versatility. The garbage time argument is a horrible one. Part of the advantage of Greene is that he IS good late in games/garbage time from wearing defenders down to run out the clock late it games.
A runningback with mediocre hands is not worth very much in this NFL. Marshall Faulk was a rarity in 1999 but there are a half dozen guys now who can catch 60-70 passes in a top season. You need that to compete at a high level unless you're going to be in the spread all day long.
Look at Marshall Faulk from 21 to 24. Look at Ray Rice for those years. Who is the better all around player? Ok, now look at the QB's Faulk played with from 25 on. Look at who Ray Rice is likely to be playing with. I think Faulk is going to turn out to have had the better career in the end because he played with Kurt Warner when Kurt Warner was the greatest QB ever for a few seasons. One more point: Marshall Faulk is known for the 4 seasons that he put up more than 2,000 yards from scrimmage. He won two MVP's in that span. Those were the only seasons in his career where he went over 2,000 yards from scrimmage. Ray Rice is 24 years old and he has already been over 2,000 yards from scrimmage twice. Faulk didn't do it until his 5th season at 25. If you put Ray Rice with Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees right now he'd probably waltz into the Hall of Fame with about the 5th best career a runningback has ever had.
Greene is outstanding right hand to a 1-2 punch. He's a second half of the year back that can help a starter out a lot when they need rest. He's what Lamont Jordan was for Curtis Martin. I like Greene a lot. He has shown me power, speed and the ability to demoralize a defense when they are starting to look down. When we had TJ, Greene was great. When we had rusty LT, Greene was great. Now we have rookies, young guys and hopefully the holy sprite in Tebow. Everybody, wanted Greene to start the season after he bulldozed Eric Weddle in the playoffs. Greene should have never been named a starter and should have been used correctly as the right hand to a knock out punch. Unfortunately, now we need a left hand, again, to setup the knock out. I'll put my faith in Tebow and Sparano's young backs for that. Defense, Ground 'N Pound and a side of Play Action pass. A game of field position, time of possession and priority of protecting the football. New York Jets football.
Now it is wait and see if that can get you to a Superbowl in the modern era of the NFL. Last year it came close with SF and Baltimore but you know what they say about close.
^Only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. This is the strength of the New York Jets. We play a game of defense and wear opposing offense down. We play a game of possession and protection and wear the opposing defense down. We pound, we hit, we stick to the game plan and who knows maybe we catch some breaks along the way, pick 6, fumble on the opposing teams half, a big break on the run and finally, the play action pass home run when we suck their defense in. I am happy with this approach. I love BIG hitting power football. I believe we can play and have a successful game plan with this approach. I hope our passing game surprises us, but I am not going to rely on it. We play to our strengths and we have the greatest opportunity to win. Defense, Ground 'N Pound and a side of Play Action pass. A game of field position, time of possession and priority of protecting the football. New York Jets football.
You dont trade up to the first pick of the 3rd round with the intentions of being a RB in a two back system that never takes the job as the feature back. They envisioned Greene being that workhorse that can break into the top 10 RB’s in the league and be more than a two down back that doesnt play in short yardage situations. They have tried to push him to be that player, and they put him in the situation to do so, but IMO he has just proved that he is best as a runningback in a 2 back system.
It is a good approach that will have you in playoff contention no doubt. The question is has the NFL screwed with the rules so much that a top defense is almost irrelevant? This style will work but not against the elite offenses in the league. All the talk about the top running backs but none including Ray Rice has played in a Superbowl much less won one. The running back position is devalued in the modern NFL. Spend the money elsewhere a top running back cannot carry you to a superbowl anymore. My point is Greene is good enough the passing has to get better because no matter how good your defense is you can't stop modern day offenses and you score points by throwing the ball. That does not mean you cannot be run first but the ultimate success of this team lays on the shoulders of Snachez and the passing game.
Greene has made great plays for us and earned a spot on the roster. I didn't draft Greene and I didn't assess his abilities at blocking, catching passes out of the backfield or having the side to side movement of young LT, Curtis Martin or Adrian Peterson. If you want a back that can get you 1000yds and 4+ avg per carry, excels late in games and late in season/playoffs, and above all protects the football that's what you get in Greene. To me that is great production and a player I can stand to have on my team. He has weaknesses that have been observed and hopefully addressed. He also has many strengths as a back and has played less than 100% with injuries for much of his career. He's not a hall of fame running back and he needs someone to help carry the load. Moving in the draft to grab a solid production guy that has helped us win very important games is fine by me. Now, we know the problems that we face with Greene and the production and expectations to have for Greene. I am still among the party for a run heavy offense and I hope that Tebow and the young backs can help achieve our running prowess and help Greene take it to the next notch and crush teams late in games.
There are so many more problems with our passing attack then there are with our running attack. Our defense is Super Bowl ready now. This is the game plan that plays to our defenses ability. Hopefully, our passing attack will surprise us, but I do not want to rely on it at all. Where we run the football well we pass the football well. If we can pound for 4yds per carry consistently it is unbelievable how much a defense will cheat on Play Action, that is when you beat them over the top with the home run and Sanchez can make that pass well. Defense, Ground 'N Pound and a side of Play Action pass. A game of field position, time of possession and priority of protecting the football. New York Jets football.
Greene is a good but not great back. hes certainly not as bad as this message board would have people believe. if the blocking can pick up he will make some people eat crow.
Green isn't bad for 3rd round talent, but the Jets certainly didn't need to trade up for him. Late 3rd round is where he should've been picked. Scouts/teams must have been overrating him.
He's a mediocre back who can't take a big hit and can't catch the ball, he doesn't suck as much as the article indicated. Hopefully Tebow will get some carries and be our starting tailback half way through the season.
If he stays healthy and takes what the OL gives him and churns out 1100 yards+ and a bunch of TD's that's all well and good and the Greene lovers will rejoice and will look to dish out that crow. Meanwhile, the real issue is something I was reading today from Matt Williamson regarding RB's - he was talking about Cedric Benson but, it applies here as well: "He is a grinder. Needs a lot of carries. Offers nothing in the passing game. That type of RB (like Blount) is a dying breed in this game." Greene is a dying Breed...... He's got a low ceiling - At best he grinds out a workman-like season and just gets the job done as the Jets pray one of the other guys pick up the slack and/or Draft ANOTHER RB next year....... Buffalo has 2 RB's more dynamic than the Jets - IMO, Miami also has two RB's more dynamic cuz I like Lamar Miller a lot.... That quote above is something that really sticks out - That Defenses know exactly where to key in when Greene is in the game... Jets offense is stifled with a one dimensional RB like this.... A side note is that with D's keying in like that the Play Action better come back to this offense in a big way - Freaking Schotty.
The thing about this debate is for me personally, I'm not even a "Greene lover". I certainly think he's upgradeable. I just think he's getting a raw deal from Jet fans who are letting the disappointment from last season cloud their view of what he brings to the table. I don't buy that the thumping RB is a dying breed. Maybe for teams running a spread offense in a warm climate it is. Maybe in Schotty's system it was. But the ground & pound is about a stubborn power running game. Run the ball even w/ 8 or 9 in the box, punish the line of scrimmage,win the field position battle & take shots down field via play action. It's physical. It's punishing.It's often predictable. But when it's rolling it's tough to stop, it works well with cold weather & it's dependable in ALL weather situations. If you want that type of offense you need runners like Greene. You sacrifice some of the big play element/receiving ability in favor of power, carries & consistency.
What you are describing is what the Jets thought they were drafting with Greene. He is a guy who in college could put a hit on a defender and stay on his feet. He also had very low mileage coming out of college. The problem is Greene has not been a guy who can put a hit on a defender and stay on his feet, he can hardly stay in the game after a collision with a defender. The NFL isn't college and Greene hasn't shown the ability to punish defenders without coming up lame in the NFL.
I went through the list, and there are 26 backs in the NFL that I would start over Shonn Greene without question, and another 5-7 I would consider. He's not good, not average, he is sub-par. His only real advantage is that he is not fumble-prone. Kurt, you keep mentioning the 250 for 1000 numbers that define solidity. Not anymore. Not in a run-first scheme. He had 253 carries because we handed it to him 253 times, mostly because the other options weren't very good. The Jets were 9th best in power running success (successful conversion on 3rd/4th and 2 or less, plus X and Goal from the 1 or 2) and 4th best in not getting stuffed (carries for 0 or negative). While Greene's status as a 'power runner' may have some impact, this is mostly an area of credit for the offensive line. Here's where it gets ugly. We were really good at reliably getting those first few yards, but 28th in second level yards (4-10 yard area) and LAST in open field running. These are the situations where the back has to make the plays, and it just didn't happen for the Jets last year.
