Ftr I don't know what will happen this coming season. None of us do. It's all speculation at this point. No one has a crystal ball, and I hope I have and can retain a level of humility about my own forecast. I certainly hope my pessimism turns out to be unwarranted, because otherwise it will be a long and ugly season, at least on O. And there is some reason to think the D will keep this team in many games, before I proceed to your post. But I fear this coming season is going to be a shit storm. Hunter is still at RT. VD is still at best in the "not yet a clear bust" category. The Jets still have a not every down back as their #1 RB and no suitable changeup. Keller is not well suited for the type of O they at least say they want to run. And the likely #2 wideout, maybe not on Opening Day but he better be out there soon after that, is very green. Yeah, there's a core of Mangold, Ferguson and Holmes who are above average players, and Kerley may join them as the slot receiver. But it's not a solid group. Add Sanchez, particularly last year's Sanchez, the one who did not improve except in some marginal stat categories, who turned the ball over way too much, who did not lead the team, who was sacked far too often, who did not stretch the field, and it does not inspire confidence, to be sure. But anyone thinking Tebow will improve the performance is crazy. Until we see otherwise, counting on that to happen, whether as a change up during games Sanchez plays or as his replacement, is either Tebot Fantasy or pure homerism. The last time we saw the #3 Qb in the game for an extended period was when Tanny stupidly brought in the even more fragile Fielder as Penny's backup. Both went down in the same game, and a totally unprepared Bollinger was inserted. I hope they pay more attention to McElroy this pre-season, since there's at least as much chance he gets in there as there was for the #3 at the start of the ill fated 2005 season.
lol This is ironic. My entire point was that your posts lacked anything of substance from actual factual data. You quoting a poster who actually made valid points and can make a coherent argument just makes you look bad. If I had known you were the type to piggyback somebody elses argument where yours lacked I wouldn't have bothered in the first place. As for the article, all I see is more discipline. We all knew that was going to happen.
Zach, you don't take into account the circumstances when posting the #s. This cannot be ignored. Chad Pennington: was fresh off TWO surgeries on his throwing shoulder. The better #s to look at to be fair would be his brief 2005 which he greatly improved upon in his 2006 season. In 2007 Chad got hurt week 1 and Kellen Clemens played most of the year and despite an awful OL & that injury(that forced us to get Woody & Faneca that offseason) Chad put up similar #s. In 2008 Chad was HEALTHY, he went to a team after cap began that he was familiar w/ the OC having played under henning as a rookie. That was a huge advantage over what favre had to deal w/ in NY. Brett Favre: Came to us w/ about a month to go before the start of the season, no offseason work, no familiarity w/ the offensive system or players. W/ that he was putting up decent #s until late in the year when he tanked it. keep it mind this guy was busy helping detroit try to beat GB rather than spending all hs time in our playbook. He didn't want to be here but it was his only chance to play. He was in a new system for the first time since 1992. In 2009 Brett WANTED to be in Minnesota to stick it to GB, he was going to play his old system something he was very comfortable doing. He did get to Minny late like he did w/ us but he knew that system as well as any player could. That was a HUGE difference. Mark Sanchez: only started 16 games in college, started from day 1 for us. Got new WR a month into the season and lost a starting WR who he was getting comfortable with. w/ that he had a good year for a rookie and played very well in our biggest games in January 2010: again has new WR missing first 4 games but improves to where he is a borderline top 10 guy(not by fantasy stats so don't botrher looking and telling me guys like Matt Cassell were better than him), he leads multiple late game comebacks through the air, again plays well in postseason(poor 1st half at Indy, rebounded and led GW drive in final minute) including bringing us back from 24-0 down at Pitt in the title game to give us a chance. 2011: has 3 of 4 NEW WRs w/ NO offseason program, OL is banged up and stinks. His #s improve across the board but they all stink late and now he can't play. You can post #s all day long but you have to be fair and discuss the circumstances around those #s.
I see these comments as completely justified, to be honest. Sure, maybe it should have been kept in house, but he really didn't say anything that isn't true. If Sachez doesn't like the comments, well, he should not make bad decisions and should stop fumbling the ball.
Posted this on ESPN too. Damien Woody and many analysts are being way too diplomatic about this situation. They skirt around the icy issue: Mark Sanchez may never get a CHANCE to prove he's the guy if he has already been benched. The players already lost confidence in Mark and to say that a Coach criticizing Mark and praising Tebow is not a calculated objective towards making the switch (NOW) is a bit naive. Mark has been replaced. I will say it. I don't have to be diplomatic. The Jets Brass is not gonna come right out and say it now but: NFL is a tough business. And what that means is, a team can move on from a player without notice despite fans or media believing that they should have loyalty or give "second chances" or because of past performance. A money a player makes or an extension he got does not change that either. Bledsoe got traded. Tebow got traded despite being paid big money as a 1st rounder. And the list goes on and on. Look, if Tebow being traded from Denver should prove anything, its that a player is year-to-year and can be replaced at a moments notice regardless of what he's done in the past. There are too many football AND business reasons (marketing) to make the switch to Tebow ASAP. That's why I wish ESPN would take some chances on the icy issues rather than bang the gong of Sanchez having a legitimate chance to keep Tebow on the bench when in reality, Sanchez has none if he doesn't get to play. It may be just smoke right now that he is currently designated as the starter. Just saying.
I'm worried about this too. What I saw from Tebow was not enough to make be confident he can be a better starting QB then Mark Sanchez. Both their teams ended the season on a 3 game losing streak. I am much more confident in keeping Sanchez in there and letting him float or drown. I am also afraid a lot of the move will be for PR reasons only. I still don't buy that the trade was football reasons only. I think there was a PR reason and it was one of the primary reasons. Disagree that Sanchez has lost the players. What players has he lost?
Oh yeah. I do. All the time. Just you are talking wall that cannot comprehend a damn thing. And that's related to Schottenheimer's performance how? Schottenheimer wasn't even the OC during 2005. 2007 was such a disaster. Just what the hell are you talking about? 10/9 TD/INT ratio, with 6.8 YPA is NOT how you say GREATLY improved. (2006: 17/16, 6.9 YPA -> YPA even regressed.) Yeah. The COMPLETION RATIO went up. Does that warrant "GREAT IMPROVEMENT"? Improvement my ass. Let me burst your own fantasy bubble again. Pennington's sack ratio went up. From below 10% (30/48x) to flat 10% (26/260) during that span. I did not think it was Schottenheimer's fault, but if you are using that as Schottenheimer's competence, then this also has to come as Schottenheimer's deficiency. There, I said it. You are nothing but a talking wall. And I even clearly mentioned the offensive fiasco in 2007 cannot be pinned down on Schottenheimer up there. READ the posting first. Having new OC/QB coach isn't always the kind of disadvantage you make it to be. Or Testaverde would never had the kind of ascension he experienced in NY. In that regard, it becomes even much clearer that Schottenheimer cannot custom-tailor his game designs and game calls to suit the QB who needs to learn on the fly. But it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever in the grand scheme of things. Out of the three QBs - Pennington/Favre/Sanchez - WHO KNEW THE SYSTEM BEFOREHAND? NOBODY. Everyone got a clean slate when it comes to getting acclimated to Schottenheimer's system. Sanchez was heavily handcuffed in his rookie year but that didn't stop him from getting mauled 26 times still. That is ungodly 7+% sack ratio. Knowing some other system beforehand could have helped when they left the evil clutch that is Brian Schottenheimer. Regardless of that fact, no QB produced enough under his guidance. (No QB even produced a YPA that could be comparable to LEAGUE AVERAGE, for instance.) But then you are a talking wall - I do not see you comprehending this. 1. I do not even care about that fantasy crap. When did I use that in my argument? Maybe in your own fantasy. Don't make stuff up. It makes you look bad. 2. That aside, Sanchez took his share of lick over the years too. Just like Favre and Pennington did under Schottenheimer's watch. For the record, Pennington was never sacked 30 times before OR after Schottenheimer. Only under Schottenheimer. Sure, even during that disaster season, Pennington still completed 65% of his passes, so if you want to point that out as Schottenheimer's crowning moment, you should also acknowledge that Schottenheimer's schemes are so deficient that it leaves a cerebral and seasoned vet like Pennington hanging high and dry as well. (Or Pennington plain sucked during that span or whatever. Either way you cannot have it both ways.)
Can you translate this post to English please? you are all over the place and have no idea what you are even posting. So it's ok t post pre '-6 #s to bash Brian but not ok when you dig deeper and understand what was going on? ypu use his pre '05 #s to compare him in '06 & '07. 2005 he was coming off ONE shoulder surgery, in '06 he was coming off TWO. Comparing '05 to '06 is the fairer way to do things rather than '04 or '08 to '06/'07 but b/c it invalidates your theory you ignore it. comp %: '05 59, '06 64.5 TDs to INTs: -1 to +1 YPA: 6.4 to 6.9 yds per game: 177 to 210 rating: 71 to 83 That's not greatly improving? where did you mention '07? You are going to cite Vinny? was Vinny in the same system for 16 years? did Vinny show up a month before the season? was Vinny annointed starter week 1? Did you noptice how Vinny did w/ a new OC in '00 and another new one in '01? Chad knew it b/c he had played in it, he even still had his rookie playbook. Fvare- FIRST time changing system in 16 years. Mark helped us reach 2 title games, how does that happen w/ an OC who is that bad? The greatest D's of all time still need help fromt heir O and quality QB play to win in January. It's nice to just look at #s w/ no context. yep Chad was never sacked 30 times in a season except the 2006 season w/ BC as his OC. Sounds bad, right? Did you know he also had his career high in attempts that year? 2003: sacked once every 12 attempts 2006: sacked once every 16 attempts was BC the OC in 2003?
If the plan all along is to have Tebow replace Sanchez to start the season then this organization has officially gone insane. Everyone is up in arms about the fact that Mark can't complete 60% of his passes but Timmy can't even connect on 47%. I don't buy it. What Tebow did at the end of games last year was nothing short of miraculous but if not for Denver's defense there's no way they win those games. Isn't that the same thing Sanchez is criticized for? I don't see how starting Tebow would in any way shape or form be an upgrade to starting Sanchez, unless they go to a full-time option offense. The Jets have made some boneheaded decisions in the past but c'mon. I think people are reading a little far into this.
I didn't like it when my puppy craped on the floor but I didn't tell me neighbor that my puppy sucks because he craps on the floor. I trained him to crap outside (on my neighbors lawn). The problem isn't what he said, the problem is he is part of a coaching staff whose job it is to develop a young QB into a top NFL QB. He's showing a lack of professional discipline by talking publicly and at the same time publicly making an excuse for his own poor performance. The QB coach and the QB development are tied together.
The reality is that in 2008 Penny was as healthy as he had been at any time in his career. In 06 he was still coming back from the shoulder surgeries on both February 4 and October 6, 2005. Those surgeries led Mangini to say there would be an open Qb competition in camp. Chad won it and went on under Schotty to win Comeback Player of the Year. Despite the criticism of Schotty, anyone who can remember and was paying attention at the time knew and remembers that Schotty developed a short passing attack to avoid the need for Chad to throw those downfield and out patterns, relying on the receivers to get yac. Chad's fragility in the intervening year of 2007 was because of a high ankle sprain. The Jets also were dealing with the disastrous effort to replace Pete Kendall with Clarke and Bender. Faneca coming to the team in 08 was not as significant as signing Favre, but imo it was right behind that, and likely Chad would have had a much better year than in 07 had he stayed. At the time and I am still of the opinion it was the right move to get Favre, since Chad was an accident waiting to happen, as eventually did. But it did not happen in 08, and Miami benefitted. Still it is worth noting in comparing 06 to 08 that they were very different situations healthwise for Chad. The ankle sprain in 07 merely required rest, and did not lead to a surgery. 06 saw Chad returning after two shoulder surgeries the year before. It is without question that Chad was healthier in 08 than in 06. To instead blame some marginal difference in stats in those years on Schotty is a huge reach. Chad was still Comeback Player of the Year under Schotty, and the Jets went 10-6. Also let's not forget that Chad crapped the bed in their playoff loss against the Ravens, which was an awful performance. The unfair rap Schotty Haters put on Favre's time with the Jets completely ignores the effect of his torn bicep. In the first eleven games the Jets were 8-3, including wins over previously undefeated Tennessee, and that glorious win over the Pats. Favre even had is personal single game best of 6 TD's against the Cards that year. But after the injury he threw 8 Ints against only two TD's. No wonder Schotty Haters choose to totally misrepresent that year by lumping in the post injured numbers with the pre injury ones. And of course Schotty Haters ignore that he took a rookie Qb to the AFC Champ Game, repeating the next year. That was not an accomplishment? When was the previous time a rookie Qb went to the Champ Game? Rothlisberger in 04. Anybody else? Mark Sanchez is no Ben Rothlisberger.
Sanchez was more miraculous in 10 in my opinion. The Houston was one of the most impressive comebacks I have seen. I think Sanchez has 5 or 6 4th quarter comeback wins that year.
This is bordering among delusion, lunacy and stupidity. 1. Schottenheimer even FORCED out pattern when it was more than evident that Pennington didn't have the arm strength to make that throw. Just what are you talking about? 2. The design was easily recognizable even for rookie DBs. (Refer to Aaron Ross interview after his career-first pick 6.) 3. Also the passing play designs left the WRs hanging high and dry. (Coles almost got decapitated by Zach Thomas in one of the Dolphags game - but then I see you have selective memory.)
Dear junc. 1. The whole thing started because someone asked the performance comparison between Sanchez and other QBs under Schottenheimer. - for which, I duly delivered. You trying to bring in 2005 stats is like WTF. Grow a brain. Or you will stay being the talking wall that you are. 2. Did I mention Pennington's 2005 stats are irrelevant in this discussion? If I didn't, THEY ARE IRRELEVANT. Grow a brain. 3. I am fed up with a few things here. First is talking to a talking wall like yourself, and the other is putting up with arguments that have no data to support the claim - that's precisely what it is like to chase a ghost. No wonder SDF can never fail - because they either don't listen, or they don't present anything worth a damn.
I don't care about the reasoning for it, you posted the #s and you expect people to ignore the circumstances and to focu on on the good w/o Brian and the bad w/ him which isn't fair. If you continue to do that I will continue to mention so others can be better informed. What data supports your argument? you posted Chad's career stats w/o the circumstances around them. Your argument looks good at face value w/ the nice graphic w/ all that stats that would wow those that don't know any better but it's all fluff w/ nothing behind it. grow a brain? are we 5 years old?
It's hard to blame that on Shotty. I found myself actually shocked at how good our O was in 06 with what was at best bottom of the league talent. There were times after the first few games where it was so obvious Pennington couldn't throw on out that we almost had to do it to get the D off of us. Guys were going to get killed either way that year but you can't say to an OC we have crap talent, a QB with no arm so we have to focus everything between the tackles 10 yards out. As teams saw tape they took things away, we didn't have the weapons to expand the field. Hard to make a 5 star meal out of pot roast. I thought based on personal it was a miracle we made the playoffs in 06. In 08 before Favre tanked with his injured arm we arguably had the best team in the AFC playing at the highest level in the division. Tape is a great equalizer and maybe Shotty is a creative guy who can't adjust once the D's catch up? I have no issue with letting him go, I'm a results guy and clearly we broke down badly. I can see where Mark wasn't comfortable, whether or not that's the OC or Mark time will tell.
Yet we won 10 games and made the playoffs. Amazing how that worked out. so the INts were the fault of the OC not the QB, WR, OL, etc... it was all the OC? Coles would routinely jump for balls that he didn't have to, look back at his career and you will see this. You are so uniformed it's not funny and I wouldn't mention it if you didn't attack me. Blaming the OC on high throws? you can't make this stuff up.
First off, Cavanaugh should have kept his comments out of the media. Secondly, I'm not convinced he is not as much part of the problem as Shotty. He has shown us nothing yet. I lost whatever little respect I had for him after his idiotic comments. Talk about poor decisions in the play calling while you are at it Cavanaugh. We should have gotten rid of him this year. Now to the bigger problem, Tebow's contributions will dwarf by the amount of unnecessary shit the team will have to go through with the media and yes our money hungry owner. If Sanchez tanks, and I hope like hell he does not, and the CS is forced to start Tebow, we would have set our destiny once again and will continue to be less than an average team, schooled by the likes of NE for the foreseeable future.. Tebow was a distraction we did not need, and he will never be the top caliber QB we need to succeed. Give Sanchez all the support he needs and stick with him....that is the only chance we got.
What you say may be what YOU think, but clearly the Jet's Brass have behind the scenes made some decisions and have a viewpoint that may be different than yours. That's my point. Just like an employer you work for that highers your replacement: it doesn't matter how many business deals you've closed in the past or what-not if they have decided to move on, right? They may see something in the other guy that even YOU don't see! If the Jets believe that they can put Tebow in a position to succeed and believe in him, those stats you bring up are like wind. For instance: YOU believe that the Denver Defense helped Tebow win, right? But that's an opinion that may not be shared by the Jets. And the Jets have an even better defense than Denver ... and you start to connect the dots. All things even, Tebow beat Sanchez head to head. So yeah, it doesn't take a big leap to think that a move has been made "internally" by the Jets towards a new direction. Internally, a move for Tebow means you want him to play. And they acknowledged that he WILL play. Just saying. That's why taking anything at face value is worthless if you're guaranteeing playing time for a back-up. He's not a back-up.
