Can someone explain to me why Chandler Jones is regarded as such a better value than Coples? Yes, he did appear unmotivated at times after his head coach (and father figure) Davis was fired from NC but he still managed 7.5 sacks,55 tackles and over 23.5 for his career vs. the ACC. Jones on the other hand only had 4.5 sacks (10.5 career) and 31 tackles in a season against Big East opponents. He also never Granted Jones will be asked to to move from DE to OLB, but I am not sure why he is considered the better pick over a guy who came into last season as the no. 1 rated defensive player and a top 10 talent in this draft? I am not a scout and I have not sat around watching hours of video of the 2 trying to figure this out, I am hoping others on this board have more insight on why this is other than someone who's stock soared after the combine and personal workouts?
Jones will most likely play DE since NE switched to a base 4-3 last year. Like you I'm not sure why Jones is considered a higher rated prospect. Mayock has said a number of times he thinks Jones will be the the best defensive player from this draft by his 3rd year. He says he based that on game tape not statistics so we'll see. Although Jones wasn't very fast in the 40 he had pretty good 3-cone, vertical, and broad jump numbers. I think I heard Mayock say that Jones has a large frame that could take another 15-20 lbs. I never thought that Jones stood out while he was on the field this year and I don't remember him from the year before. But whatever. There's a reason these "experts" are on TV and not NFL scouting depts.
They're the two highest upside defensive lineman in the draft imo, and the fact Jones has an unquestioned motor/work ethic likely leads Mayock and others to feel he has the better chance to succeed (landing in NE certainly doesn't hurt either....as we know, and NE pick immediately gets a bump from analysts) Having said that, I think what analysts are looking over is the fact Jones is far from a finished product and is far more of a project than Coples.....also Coples downside (imo) is far higher than Jones.....at his worst I think Coples will be a 10 year starter in the league who plays all 3 downs, is stout against the run and provides some push. At his best, Coples can be one of the most disruptive 3-4 ends in football, collapsing pockets, taking doubles teams, stuffing the run, and causing increased production across the front 7, while kicking in 5-10 sacks himself.... Jones as his best will be a complete player, and could post 10-15 sack seasons in his prime, thus making him an easier pick to love for analysts, because his impact will be easier to recognize due to the sexier stats. ....and just to clarify, Mayock has said he thinks Jones could be the best defensive player from this draft class, but I don't think he'd argue that Jones has more upside than Coples, in fact id be surprised if anyone would make that claim.
Coples is a bit more polished, but has work ethic issues, he coasted last year and his stats only really look good because of 3 games: VT (a good team) Duke (a terrible team), and James Madison (FCS). Jones isn't as accomplished, but he's considered a hard worker and is more versatile (can play DE or OLB). I disagree with the assessment than Coples downside is higher, they have the same downside which is out of the league in 4 years. If Coples really is unmotivated then he will be gone there are players more talented than him who lazed their way out of the league. I think the thing is commentators worry more about guys who have "attitude" or "motivation" issues than skill since skill can be taught but motivation is all on the player.
Mayock had Jones as his #9 on the big board, Coples #21. Kiper had Coples #9 and Jones wasn't in the top 25. Parcells/Polian had Coples as the top DE, Jones as the #7 DE Just depends on who you ask, I guess.
I think they are both high ceiling picks and tho I really like Chandler Jones, this is the time of year where I can be blindly optimistic about Coples being the next DeMarcus Ware and Chandler Jones being Vernon Gholston. (God, that is gonna smart for a ling time). Still, if you are talking about value, then you've got to acknowledge that Coples was in the conversation for a top five pick one eyar ago.
There's no chance Coples is out of the league in 4 years.....guys who can play the run as well as he can, will always find a job. His downside is unquestionably higher than Jones....as his "bust" rate is virtually nil.
I'm so glad the Pats took Chandler Jones. it was a great way to flatten out their draft in a situation where it looked like they were going to get 3 or 4 excellent players. Jones might be a good one but he isn't going to be a star.
I live in Denver and all the fans out here were excited when McDaniels took Robert Ayers because Mayock said he would be the best defensive player in that draft. They are still waiting for that to happen.
Name one really good defensive player the pats have drafted in the past 5 years ? I can't think of one maybe mayo
2007-2011 they drafted the following defensive players in the first 2 rounds: Brandon Merriweather- overrated, but still a 2 time pro-bowler Jerod Mayo- One of the top 5 MLB in football Terrence Wheatly- Bust Pat Chung- Good but injured Ron Brace- Always injured Darius Butler- Bust Devin McCourty- Great rookie year, regressed, but definitely NFL starter quality Brandon Spikes- good when not injured or suspended, NFL starter quality Jermaine Cunningham- Still only a situational guy at best Ras-I Dowling- Missed rookie year with injury, I'd say it is 1 star (Mayo), 1 solid guy (Merriweather), 2 Busts (Wheatley, Butler) And of the guys who it is a bit early to make an assessment I'd say they look likely to be: Bust- Brace, Cunningham Solid player- Spikes, McCourty very good player- Chung Dowling isn't worth rating since no one has seen him play.
I think Copels phoned it in senior year after his coach got fired and they moved him to a different place on the defense.
Jones is going to post 10-15 sack seasons? And where are those going to come from, out of his ass? Because he hasn't posted numbers like that against lesser competition in college. Jones is likely to be Bryan Thomas in the end. A solid two-way player who helps set the edge for the Pats. He had 10 sacks for Syracuse in 32 games. That number is not going to go up significantly when he hits the NFL if at all. Saying that Jones is suddenly going to turn into a sack terror is like saying that D-Rob was going to be a mini-Sapp. The numbers say you're either nuts or smoking crack.
1 part playing not to get hurt and have his draft stock plummet (see: teammate Deunta Williams, once considered a 1st round pick) 1 part his coach and father figure got fired, less passion 1 part he was moved outside to DE from his natural 4-3 DT spot, out of position 1 part he was still mocked in the Top 3 picks throughout the entire season, thought he was doing fine = Quinton Coples' senior season
yeah and between 2007-2011 we've drafted darrelle revis (star), david harris (hes a star in my eyes), kyle wilson (if he keeps improving at this rate, could be better than any of the patriots CBs), muhammad wilkerson (with a full offseason can be very productive). the only thing the patriots have hit on is gronk and hernandez. have the patriots won a super bowl since spygate? no. was bill bellichick fired from the browns? yes. if he was such a godly coach, he could of turned them around just like how bill parcells did with the jets
He obviously is going to be the next JPP... I mean Mayock said he could be the best defensive player from the draft!!!!! His frame is soooo long so he obviously must be compared to Aldon Smith and JPP... Haha. Its very funny how people come up with this shit. IMO, Jones isnt even athletic enough to be a 3-4 OLB. If he wants to succeed, I personally think he should gain 15 pounds and try and be a stout 4-3 end that provides some passrush ability (because he doesnt have this elite athleticism or burst that he supposedly gained a week before the draft). He’s likely NOT going to be a regular 10-15 sack per season guy; he doesnt have that burst/athleticism. I love Coples and what he provides for this defense and am SOOOO glad he was the pick rather than this overhyped mediocre player in Jones. Coples has ELITE potential at DE, and him and Mo Wilk will be a scary tandem going forward. A key point that is forgotten with Coples is that now the hybrid backer (Maybin) can line up next to Mo Wilk on the blind side more, instead of on the right side next to Devito who could only play DT or 3-4 end. Now you are able to change it up and the offense wont know where this hybrid backer is coming from because he can either attack the blind side with Mo playing DT and Coples playing end or vice-versa. Coples may not give you 10-15 sacks, but his impact is going to be highly effective. Cant wait to see this front 7 in action.
In Rex's D, 7 sacks for a Defensive Lineman would be dominating, their job is to push the pile to keep the QB from stepping up in the pocket when the outside rushers come around the ends.
i was strictly talking about defensive draft picks up, but yea vernon gholston was a draft. it happens. i was trying to imply that the patriots aren't an all mighty draft force and everything they do is awesome, which is what the "experts" always seem to express
