If you don't believe he was solely responsible for the wins then you wouldn't make the argument about the TEAM's record before he took over because obviously Orton wasn't responsible for those loses.
That's not good reasoning. The reason the wins are important to performance is not because any player is "solely" responsible. It's because in any win, the performance was good enough to win. We won't have the benefit of knowing how much better he could have done, because the job got done. In Orton's case, the job didn't get done. It's a complex thing -- play-calling, risk-taking, "pulling the trigger" etc. A lot of those games involved a TON of run plays. When it came down to the need to air it out, in the wins the passing was good enough. Whatever the situation faced, the athletic ability to rise to the challenge was there. It's kind of like a pitcher in baseball -- wins and losses aren't all on him, but if he does win you know his pitching was a least good enough for the situation he faced.
They do matter, but when they get doctored up to sound better than they are well its just kind of lame.
Not only did they trade him for nothing, they took all photos of Tebow out of the training facility Dove Valley. Elway wanted him gone like the plague.
Anti Tebowites (yes its a cult) automatically assume that any praise given to Tebow (no matter how small) is an indication that the person giving the praise thinks he was solely responsible for winning a game . Here is what I think and what actually is reality: Tebow was not the only reason the Broncos completely turned around that abysmal record and ended 8-5 with a playoff win and of course The Denver defense and the kicking game had as much to do with it . BUT without Tebow the Broncos do not go 8-5 into the playoffs , as Tebow is one of the 3 pieces that were neccessary to get that accomplished (Quinn and Orton would not have had that success running the same offense) . Therefore Tebow deserves as much credit for the turn around as the defense and the kicking game and if not as much quite a bit (he was one of the 3 pieces) .
Tebow was gone because Peyton Manning wanted to go to Denver, the same way the Jet's would have "wasted" a pick on Sanchez if Peyton had decided to go to the jets.
The Jets wouldn't have had cap space to keep both. The Broncos definitely did. Peyton Manning is also much more of an injury risk at this point in his career than Sanchez.
Make no mistake about it, Tebow is gone because Peyton would not have wanted him on the bench. If Peyton gets off to a slow start and they are 3-4 to start the season you would have heard rumblings in the stands. Denver did not get rid of Tebow because he stunk, they got rid of Tebow because they did not feel he could co exist with Peyton after Tebow had so much success as a starter (again Broncos were crap before and had not been to the playoffs in 7 years, Tebow as not the only reason for the turnaround but he was one of the reasons). I'll say it again, jets got a steal for a 4th round pick, we will revisit this as the end of the year and see who was right.
You honestly believe that Peyton Manning felt threatened by Tim Tebow? OK. Also - please look at the original post I was responding to to put a context around this conversation. I never said he had no value, in fact I think he can be very valuable as a situational player. Just not as a starting QB.
It would have been a distraction for Peyton being asked 1000 questions every news conference, because unlike the jets, Denver would have had tebow not playing in the game. You and i agree on everything else .
If Fox and Elway believed they had an "already successful" young QB with a ton of potential why would they want to shove him out the door so quickly for a 36 year old QB who just missed an entire season with a broken neck? Why wouldn't they want to develop him???
In short because they want to win a SB in the next 2 years and feel that Manning gives them the better chance to do it. They were willing to bet that the return that Manning would give them would be greater than what Tebow could. Because Tebow had won more than lost as a starter in Denver they didn't have the luxury of keeping him on the roster, in order to get Manning they had to be all in. In order to be all in Tebow had to go. Had the Jets got Manning Sanchez would have been shipped out too same with Smith. As much controversy as Tebow brings as a named backup, imagine the drama with him as a demoted starter after a year with a winning record. In short Denver was willing to take short term return with Manning over the posibility of long term improvement of Tebow. The next 3 years will tell whether it was a good call or not
That's a nice spin. Again, the Jets couldn't afford Manning and Sanchez. The Broncos could have easily afforded Manning and Tebow. Tebow posed no legit threat to Manning and if he was such a successful young QB Denver would never have let him go for a 4th round pick 2 years after spending a first on him. Furthermore, don't you think a few more NFL GM's would have also recognized this great "successful QB" that you Tebow fans seem to see and offer more than a measly 4th round pick? This league is STARVING for successful young QB's and teams will give up a kings ransom to move up in the draft at merely the CHANCE of a successful young QB. Imagine what they would offer for a proven successful young QB. Get this straight people, Tebow posed zero threat to Manning. That's a ridiculous argument made up by people who want to believe in their hero. You guys are living in dream land.
never said it would be a threat, more of a distraction. If Denver went 8-8 this year with Tebow on the team as a backup it would be a disaster. I fully expect they would be calling for Tebow by the end of the year. That fanbase would go nuts. Tebow is still a project QB, that is obvious, I think he has tremendous upside if he ever manages to put it all together. I have never argued that he is a finished product, just that he is not all that bad compared to other 2nd year guys, but all you ever hear is how superior McCoy and Bradford are at passing despite what the Stats say. The fact that 5 teams showed interest in a Tebow is enough for me to believe that there are at least other teams out ther willing to give it a shot. Plenty of teams are willing to let their young QB's have several bad to mediocre years before they move on. I think the Jets are towards the end of Sanchez trial period and it is time for him to break out, if not Tebow is a legitimate backup plan. All in all he is far from great, but far from hopeless, pretty much the same I have heard all the rational Tebow posters state.
He's totally awesome if you throw out completion percentage and passes that look like they were thrown by Brad Smith in a windstorm.
Actually, you accidentally hit on a good point. Tebow CAN pass the ball, his problem is that he can't do it CONSISTENTLY.
