Do you think we will learn?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by johnnysd, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. Pereiro16

    Pereiro16 Member

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    yea and then the Texans become the best team lol
     
  2. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    1. Since Pouha is not absorbing the blockers like any 3-4 NT is supposed to (minimum 2, real good ones like Big Jenkins, 3) that necessitates the presence of Bart Scott instead of having two fast ILBs that can cover from sideline to sideline. Listen. Pouha is NOT how you spell dominant NT - which is what you need to run any successful 3-4

    2. Wilkerson was seen drawing double and at times triple teams - I would reserve my judgement on him, with a hope that he grows up to be a beast.

    3. Once the DL cannot protect the LBs, they are exposed. Harris is good and nice and all that, but he is not on the stratosphere of Ray Lewis. He is a good ILB, not a dominant one.

    Out of all three the problem with Pouha is the most critical. That DeVito is but a rotational quality DL is hurting the performance of DL in general - you have 1 (potential) thoroughbred DE, teamed up with two donkeys. Good luck defending up front with that kind of talent level.
     
  3. blackssmagic

    blackssmagic Well-Known Member

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    Zach,
    We actualy agree on this, Devito is nothing more than a rotational guy. Wilk did an excelent job las year as a rookie. With what Ellis showed last year is he the answer?
     
  4. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    Ellis could have been 1st round pick (late actually) - he has the tools and has an added bonus of rather quick feet. It is just that he is very raw, and his conditioning leaves a lot of room for improvements. Provided he does not get deported out of US by this spring, he should be able to emerge as a starting NT in a few seasons.

    That said, you need to consider that Pouha is on the wrong side of 30. There are a few good prospects that will be available at low rounds (Josh Chapman/Ta'amu etc) It would be more than wise to pick these guys up and have them trained as well too.

    Last, but not the least, Jets need another starter quality DE as well.
     
  5. JetsNation

    JetsNation New Member

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    Build the team up this year solid moves, create an identity, sucks we got Mr. Field Goal instead of a legit offensive mind anyway play Mark this year when he sucks trade up in the 2013 draft and get Matt Barkley, who I think is going to be just as good as Andrew Luck, thats our best option in my eyes, trade Mark release him do whatever just get a real QB with a lot of college experience, who can read defenses and hit open receivers, most importantly draft one, signing guys cost tooooooo much money
     
  6. BleedJetsGreen1981

    BleedJetsGreen1981 Well-Known Member

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    Courtney Upshaw can be that guy for the Jets first round pick, he's the game changer pass rusher we've been dreaming about, hope we nab him.
     
  7. Catt_County

    Catt_County Banned

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    Unless the Texans franchise him or re-sign him, Super Mario is a FA in March, so there's no need to trade for him. Unfortunately for the Jets, they have so much money tied up in guaranteed money to guys like Holmes that they probably couldn't afford Mario Williams.
     
  8. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Harris will be an impact player when he has a bunch of impact players around him. Put him in the middle of the Steelers defense and he'd be All-Pro.

    This is the conundrum for the Jets right now: they don't have critical mass anywhere on the field except at cornerback. They have a bunch of players, like Sanchez and Harris and D'Brick and Holmes that would have a shot at greatness if they had other great players around them. They have Nick Mangold excelling in the middle of an otherwise pedestrian line. Then they have a bunch of guys who are average at best or too young to know and who all depend on everybody else playing at the top of their game in order to prosper.

    That's why a RT like Hunter can destroy the season. Same thing for Adrien Clarke in 2007. That's why a penalty machine like Matthew Mulligan can throw everything off until the offense looks dead. That's why a good LT like D'Brick can look so bad in a quarter of the games this season. When Slausson was having an off-game D'Brick struggled and Sanchez got destroyed.

    The Jets have been going on the principle that all they needed was a few good to great players and everything else would work out. Well, that's just not the case. You need a few great players and a lot of good to great players and then you get traction and you can move forward from there.

    The Steelers have a huge amount of the value on their defense in the NT, the four linebackers and the strong safety. They have critical mass in the center of the field and near the line of scrimmage and that's what makes that defense great every season.

    On the offensive side of the ball the Steelers have a bunch of good receivers, a strong interior line group, a solid set of runningbacks and a QB who profits heavily from the accumulation of talent on the offensive side of the ball.

    Ben Roethlisberger has been playing with the same players for years and even when the Steelers let a Plaxico Burress or Santonio Holmes go they have enough continuity that things stay stable from year to year.
     
    #28 Br4d, Feb 6, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
  9. Struckanerve9

    Struckanerve9 New Member

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    Actually, the one stat that correlates most closely to wins is passing DIFFERENTIAL. Meaning the difference between passing yards gained on offense and those given up on defense. This can be maximized by either passing for a lot of yards, or giving up very few on defense. The Jets have had success because they play very good pass defense (although a pass rush would make it a LOT better). This approach is similar to how Denver had success this year. They limited the number of passing yards they gave up while using their run game and a limited passing attack to keep games close.
     
  10. concussion80

    concussion80 New Member

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    Trade possibly the best CB ever for one pass rusher? You guys need to get off that bad crack you've been smoking.

    There isn't one pass rusher in this league that has nearly the dominant effect on a game as Revis.

    You can address the pass rush in a variety of ways with the 3-4. Either at DL or LB, so trading away your lockdown corner for someone you can get in the draft is absolutely retarded.
     
  11. Struckanerve9

    Struckanerve9 New Member

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    Man, I wish. Hope he's still there when we pick. If not, maybe Ingram or Mercilus or Coples can be the guy. I guess Barron is also a possibility at safety. I know a lot of people aren't too high on him, but he's a physical guy that can cover and can start from day 1. Would be a huge upgrade at safety. Still, I'd prefer the 3-4 DE/OLB pass rusher we've been waiting for forever!
     
  12. LeonNYJ

    LeonNYJ Well-Known Member

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    Championship teams are built through the draft and key trades/free agent signings in every single sport. I dont' care if it's football, hockey, basketball, or yes, even baseball. Your best players are brought up through the system. Trying to buy a championship never works. Heck, even look at the Yankees, their most successful teams have always been loaded with highly talented home grown players.
     
  13. YankeeRacers

    YankeeRacers Member

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    Quarterback....Quarterback...uhhh... Quarterback. I'm not the only one who sees this.

    Trent Dilfer was a fluke. Show me a team who has made it to the Super Bowl without a Quarterback. It's not a coincidence ladies. Defense helps win championships, helps.

    A team is built with a Quarterback nothing more nothing less. I could have Jerry Rice and Marvin Harrison, but if Chad Pennington is throwing the ball I have dick. If Mark Sanchez is a great Quarterback then I see no reason he shouldn't get us to the SB. If he's not then we won't make it and the failure will be on the organization in finding a Quarterback to lead.

    Running the ball and ground and pound will do nothing in this day and age, nothing.
     
  14. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    If the Jets could get a serious package for Revis at this point, an impact pass rushing LB and a 1st round pick for example, they should grab it and run.

    Great corners are a wonderful support piece for the defense. They can make an average defense look like a good one for example, but they don't make a good defense great and they never have.
     
  15. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    I would say Sanchez has a shot at averageness if he has great players around him. And I remain highly skeptical about how you and other Sanchez Fans seem all too willing to throw the whole rest of the team under the bus.

    How many great players do the Pats have? Tom Brady, Wes Welker, Gronk and Wilfork. Their OL is also better than average. But great players in the way that Mangold and Revis are great? I count four.

    But the Jets as you sort of allude to also have some near great players, to be sure. Despite his off season due to problems Jet Fans are familiar with if of different minds about, Santonio Holmes is in that category. Former SB MVP. The most talented skill position player on the Jets, but also one who seems to have a great deal of baggage right now, and whom I suspect with good reason is quite skeptical of Mark Sanchez.

    Cromartie is another. He suffers by comparison to Revis, but is still one of the top cb's in the league.

    Harris is a player I am not a huge fan of, but he's very good nonetheless.

    Ferguson had a very disappointing year this past year, and it was not all due to a lack of greater development by Slauson, as much as I like to dump on him. Several times he got beat straight up, and imo he did not deserve his Pro Bowl berth this year. Still, he definitely fits that description of near great.

    My somewhat surprise pick in this category is Pouha. I think he had a great season amidst a generally mediocre one, seems to be more and more a team leader, and has certainly elevated his game. Is there more upside? I expect we will find out as I am pretty sure the Jets will bring him back.

    So maybe the Jets only have two great players, but even one of the best teams in the league only has four, and meanwhile the Jets have five players just below that level.

    And ftr Mark Sanchez is not one of those players.
     
  16. LeonNYJ

    LeonNYJ Well-Known Member

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    Well, put it this way. Deion Sanders won two Super Bowls in his career. Both times his QBs were future HOFers (Troy Aikman & Steve Young).
     
  17. concussion80

    concussion80 New Member

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    Thats a gamble I wouldn't take. The pick means nothing until he proves himself, could take 2 years to develop. The guy rushing the passer has a much higher injury risk than Revis would. No way. Never.

    You simply do not trade away once in a lifetime franchise players. It almost never works out, specially in football where players have short career life spans.
     
  18. Milliner is your Mommy

    Milliner is your Mommy Well-Known Member

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    David Harris makes 8 mill a year not 10.
     
  19. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    Wrong on both counts. Look at what Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes did for a Raider D that won the SB in 1983. That D was not great without those two guys, perhaps the greatest CB tandem ever.

    But aside from that argument, I think you miss that Ryan believes strongly that a D that includes two cb's who can play man coverage allows the rest of the D a flexibility to do different things it otherwise would not be able to do. It is part of Ryan's philosophy.

    The fact that other aspects of the D were so weak that it was vulnerable to pass catching TE's unfortunately hid how succcesful the Jets were in defending wideouts. The answer is not to weaken the D's ability to defend wideouts. The answer is to improve the team's ability to cover TE's. That should be possible without choosing more mediocre cb's as the way to go.
     
  20. TheGreenCantona

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    I think it is quite simple, but very costly do do anything about:

    jets have Sanchez, Holmes, Greene, Keller on important offensive positions, neither is top-10 in their respective position;
     

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