Belichick without Tom Brady? One playoff win. Shula went to Super Bowls with multiple quarterbacks. Super Bowl 3- Earl Morrall Super Bowl 6- Bob Griese Super Bowl 7- Bob Griese Super Bowl 8- Bob Griese Super Bowl 17- David Woodley Super Bowl 19- Dan Marino
Yeah, 'cause the larger and implied point was that Shula won in multiple eras- pre-1978 rules and post-1978 rules and did so with all sorts of teams. He won with teams that had offenses that relied predominantly on running and he won with offenses that relied predominantly on passing. Also, I did not mention Unitas.
Woodley was not a Hall of Fame caliber quarterback. That's enough. I don't want to spend much more time defending Shula. I'm a Jets fan for crying out loud.
Their team is in somewhat of a rebuilding stage imo.....yet they're still pretty good. Their defense is extremely young, who knows if Welker will be the same, and Moss is getting old. Getting a decent TE would help Brady out.
Most "Great" coaches usually have hall of fame QB's. It's amazing how these "Great" coaches seem to fail when their QB's are average at best. So the real question is did the coach make the QB or vice-versa?
BB has been living off a reputation from many years ago, if he never had Brady he'd be a DC somewhere right now and his HC days would be over.
Everyone in this thread who doesn't think BB is a good coach is either lying or delusional. He is one of the premier defensive minds in the game, his defenses dominated the league for years, and were a primary reason the NFL made all the changes to increase scoring, and hamstring defenses
The term "system qb" when applied to NFL quaterbacks is utterly worthless, but Brady was actually much more of a guy that relied on his defense and special teams play (and running game in 2004) when his teams were winning championships. The Pats made it to the Super Bowl in '01 and '03 because the defense was dominant and the special teams came up with big play after big play...If anyone gets credit for that it has got to be the head coach.
The Patriots have repeatedly made roster moves that I just can't understand. I've always felt that their success is owed more to Belichick deploying his his men well on the field as opposed to them actually doing a good job of procuring and scouting talent. This falls in to that category. I think they are on the way down NOW, but keep in mind that they have a better chance than any other team to improve in the draft due to the number of picks that they have. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but this is a VERY deep draft and they will have ample opportunities to bring in talent both directly and indirectly (there will be teams that want to trade with them). I think the edge has to go to the Jets now, they are healthier and younger and have a more talented roster. This could change though; nothing is guaranteed for the Jets as of yet.
Which is why NE was 5-11 w/o Brady in 2000 and strated 0-2 including a loss to the Bengals in 2001 before Brady started then they magically went 11-3 the rest of the way. The Pats D's have been vastly overrated, they played great throuhg most of the '01 playoffs and even then they blew a 14 pt 4th qtr lead only to be rescued by Tom and the O. In 2003 the great Pats D allowed 18 4th qtr pts. In NE's 3 SB wins theose "great" D's allowed a total 42 4th qtr pts, an average of 14 per 4th qtr. Great D's do not do that. Guess how many they gave up in the 4th qtr in their SB loss? 14. The pats D's have been vastly overrated. They won b/c of the QB not the HC.
He's bringing back the Run n Shoot. :up: I'd be more excited by them having no TEs on the roster if it wasn't, you know, mid-March.
People make fun of the Jets backfield with an unproven 16 game starter in Greene and an aging LT, but just look at the pats... Maroney Morris Taylor Not exactly set there.
I'm sure you guys are aware of this but in football, you can make up a ton of ground for deficiencies with two elements - a great QB, and a great head coach. I don't think it's necessary to pick it apart to decide which one is more important. Just about all of the HOF coaches and QBs had a counterpart. Walsh and Montana, Lombardi and Star, etc-etc. So both are important, and have been to the past success of the team. I don't think Brady is as good without Belichick, and vice-versa. Despite going 11-5 without Brady two years ago, it seems to me the Patriots have reached a point where without him, they wouldn't even really be competitive. Their defense is average at best, they have no running game, their receiving corps is suddenly borderline... even their special teams sucked in '09. For NE, it's all about the next two drafts. If they miss on picks, they're done, and it wouldn't surprise me to see Brady finish out his career somewhere else. If they hit on most of the picks, they'll be OK. Obviously free agency isn't the way they want to go, unless signing David Patten was somehow a high priority this offseason. :wink: Personally I think the AFC East is the Jets' to lose this year, based on what they did in the playoffs and what they've done to get better since the season ended. And I'm not just saying that because I'm... well, here.
Based on how the Pats have drafted in the last few years, I think there is a better chance of them missing on their draft picks than hitting. Their drafts, except for a player here or there, have really been horrible considering how many picks they go into each draft having.
Exactly, and that's what makes me nervous. They basically wasted 2006 and ended up with one player in '07 (Meriweather) and '08 (Mayo). But so far '09 looks OK... a couple of those guys should contribute this year. Overall though you're right, the draft hasn't been Belichick's strongest suit, and Pioli probably had a lot to do with the success they had there from '01-'05ish.
Belicheats genious only goes as far as Tom Brady takes him. Brady is showing signs of wear and suddenly Belicheats not as successful with the Pats. Not a coincedence if you ask me. His drafting has been suspect and now that his team is showing signs of age he isn't able to plug in younger players to fill the void. I say Beli is EXPOSED. Welcome back to earth DOUCHBAG!
