i totally agree. and i completely understand the need for OL. but taking Ferguson means we still need to then draft a RT and G, and more OL for depth. And then Jones either rots on the bench or tries to succede at RT, which we're not certain of. Let's say Jones isn't a good RT; well then we've fixed LT with Ferguson, but then we still have a hole a RT. With Jones already showing he's capable of starting (it was his first year playing too), why not solidfy the RT spot with the best RT available. In that case, we know we have a starting LT and probably a good rookie capable of starting at RT. Like you said, Kurt, there's so much OL depth in this draft that we don't have to take Ferguson. I wouldn't mind taking him at 4; I just don't agree with it. cheers
Here are the O linemen taken in the top ten since 1995. The beginning of the list looks good.... after that, since 2000, it gets pretty shaky. 1995 Boselli, 2 1996 Ogden, 4 Willie Anderson, 10 1997 Pace,1 Walter Jones,6 1998 Turley,7 1999 none 2000 Chris Samuels,3 2001 Leonard Davis,2 Mike Williams,4 Bryany McKinnie,7 2003 Jordan Gross,8 2004 Gallery,2 Of these 13, I believe only 9 are still starters. While it's true that there are as many starting tackles taken in the first round as the totals from rounds 2 and 3, they are typically not taken in the top ten. However, of the recent pro bowl tackles, most are from this group. Namely, Ogden, Anderson, Pace, Jones and Samuels. Since 2001, no tackle taken in the top ten has made the pro bowl. Oh fer five. Could Ferguson break the drought? I have my doubts. This year, Seattle lost with a pro bowl top ten pick left tackle, to a team that didn't have one. NE doesn't have a pro bowl LT either. They do however, have a very good QB. All three of these teams have good QB's. The Jets don't have a QB. They have a LT. Nuff said.
nice research. and we seemingly agree that we already have a LT. Why draft another one and then send the one we have into uncertainty at RT? cheers
Football is a TEAM game... the IMPACT PLAYERS cant make that Huge Splash with out solid "NON" impact guys... You saw what happened to the NFL's leading rusher last year.. behind a make shift, beat up, old, offensive line...
Taking a strategy of not taking Ferguson does NOT mean ignoring the O line. I can see us getting a VERY good RT in the second round, and a Mike Degory in the third. The pro Ferguson folks LOVE to say that anyone with another strategy wants to ignore the line.... just not true, given that this is perhaps the deepest draft for O linemen in the history of the NFL.
I'm beginning to think that the majority of those people just didnt take the time to look into the other Ol in this draft and are only paying attention to the mainstream Fergy hype. In which case, they arent even worth acknowledging/arguing w/.
i'm with Kurt and Thunderbird here. passing on Brick doesn't mean we're passing on the whole OL. why is this so difficult to understand? cheers
You are wrong football games are still won in trenches.(you build from both lines) Drafting early ON Oline might not be sexy pick but thats the pick that pays in the longrun. KC Chiefs are perfect example why you build Oline. Chiefs not the colts, have had the number 1 offense. Look at their WRs and alot of teams have better weapons. (they don't have their oline) First off Raiders young Oline was one best passing blocking Oline in 2004. (everyone that saw that line in 2004 was predicting it to develop into one best in all of football) That didn't happen as the line regressed(2005) thanks to Norv Turner switching from a man to man blocking scheme(More favorable scheme for Raiders personal )to a zone blocking scheme(Raiders Olineman didn't have the quickness to play that system) . Also Injuries to Center J Grove and LG Langston Walker(oline really regressed after he was lost for season on fluke injury) didn't help. You think with hiring of ART SHell- headcoach, Jackie Slater -0line coach , IRv Eatman- assistant Line coach( was similairv role with chiefs) and OC TOm Walsh( known to devising blitz pickup blocking schemes) that Raiders aren't commiting to improving that area. First thing art shell did was go back to man on man blocking scheme. Second he told R gallery he moving to LT. LT B sims to LG C J Grove RG ? RT Langston Walker. Outside of 30 year old B sims those players are all 25- 26 years old
I think the 3rd is a bit of a stretch for Degory...I think at that point Eslinger might still be around. As for OT I think we can also get a guy like Troy Reddick in the 3rd, another roadgrader type that is often overlooked playing next to Marcus McNeill. But he himself is a good propsect that has helped pave the way for some prolific rushing attacks. Then all we would need is a guard. Id go with an NFL-ready guard like MJ Gilles or Dave Joseph. I like Charles Spencer but with Kendall off the team he wont have any time to learn the ropes so we need a guy that can come in and play immediately
I'm not sold on Eslinger. I have Degory rated above him. Bottom line, we should be able to get two O linemen who will be ready to start, and maybe even a third, if we spend the overall 4 elsewhere.
WOW, so people who want Ferguson are believing the hype? Cutler has done absolutely nothing to merit a top 4 pick but HE has been hyped to the point where people think hes a top 4 pick. Ferguson has been dominant for 4 yrs and only gotten better. He was labeled a top 5 pick 2 yrs in a row now. Cutler....has done nothing. Nothing worth mentioning in college. Nothing worth mentioning with his stats. But he has a quick release and "wants to win", woohoo, sign me up. I know we can find other o-line men in the next rounds, but last i checked, we needed more than one o-line men to draft and i would rather draft the best LT with our first pick than drafting a LT in the 2nd and 3rd. And to those who think there isnt a real drop off between Ferguson(Elite 1st rd grade) and Winston(2nd rd grade), then youre fooling yourself. We take Ferguson in the 1st, Charles Spencer OG(best guard in the draft) in the 2nd, and Greg Eslinger C in the 3rd(the best or 2nd best center in the draft) and we then use our supplimental picks we get for Jordan, McKenzie, etc and draft a Brodie Croyle, Drew Olson, Marcus Vick etc(we get us a QB in the 3rd) So to recap we can basically end up with THEE best o-linemen available at there position. We dont settle for the 3rd best QB in the draft, then draft the 4th best LT in the draft and then settle for the 4 best OG in the draft. We end up getting the most bang for our buck.
Ok, but the "Cutler people" at least acknowledge the other options at the QB position. We all realize that Leinart for some reason might fall to us, and until the mighty 6 on the wonderlic, Young was an option as well. We also acknowledge that Brodie Croyle might be a good option in round 2. Do we prefer Cutler? Sure. But we at least accept the possibility of other options if they help the football team. The above quotations is the only time I've ever seen you "Fergy guys" acknowledge any other OT. All we keep hearing is how "you start upfront and Ferguson is the best OT prospect since Pace." Completely disacknowledging the quality depth that is available later in the 1st round, and throughout day 1. Somehow Adrian Jones gets lost in this BS, and that isn't right either. You make it like the rest of us have this lack of football intellect and dont understand the importance the OL plays to a team's success. Far from the case. In fact, I handle 90% of the OL prospect evaluation for a draft site, and write a column solely based on it. I know what Brick is capable of. I also know what the other Linemen in this draft are capable of. And that if the CS truly falls in love w/ a QB prospect, they should pull the trigger and address the OL later on day 1.
If you think a STUD LT isn't important just ask Chad Pennington. There is no more important position in the NFL besides QB then a LT if your QB is right handed. How many seasons or careers have ended due to a blindside hit. Fergunson has put on 20+ lbs since the Senior Bowl. He's now 312 lbs. That's enough for me if I can't trade down he's my guy at 4 in the 1st rd.
At which point Adrian Jones gets wasted on the bench, and we may very well get stuck w/ Brooks Bollinger at QB for the foreseeable future. Sure we'll have a great OL that can keep a QB from getting hammered, but will we have a QB who can distribute the ball for big plays? I tend to think that's alil more important. Remember that 5 year period when we had a top 5 OL in the league? From like 99 through 04? Which by the way, up until Kendall signed in 04, we didnt have one 1st rounder on that line and were consistently in the top 10 for least sacks given up. Anyway back to my point....did that top 5 line bring us a championship? No. And why? Lack of quality defense and lack of consistency at the QB position. You can have the bes OL in the world. But if you don't have a consistent passer and leader at the QB position, it all means nothing.
Yeah. The Rams sure made a terrible pick with Pace at #1. Why would they ever want a cornerstone tackle to be a key part of two Superbowl teams?
Kurt there won't be a QB worth taking at 4. Also I'm a advocate of taking the "Best available player". In this case D'Brickshaw grades out near the top.
I agree w/ the BPA theory, and if Brick truly is the BPA at 4, yes we pull the trigger. But I'm getting the sense that Cutler is grading out very well in alot of war rooms, and if his grade is even w/ that of Brick's, Cutler will be the correct pick to make.
OMG Brick is a pass blocker @ best read the scouting report Good size great speed he will excell in the pass and screen plays but will be pushed to the limit by sronger ends . I dont mean to knock the guy but if you are going to draft a lineman in the first rd I think he needs to be more rounded . I think the Jets should take the best avail player whoever that maybe Young Hawk White . I think they should go after White whos a better back than Bush . Bush is Overrated . Look at the stats between Bush and White they R similiar ! Player ATT YDS AVG TDS 1. Bush 200 1777 8.9 16 2. White 197 1319 6.7 24 Yea Bush has over 400 more yrds but he was the prime back . Id say White with the # 4 if I was the GM
Why? Ha....a difference maker? Walter Jones is a difference maker, he's the reason Shaun Alexander won the MVP award, and a huge reason why the Seahawks were so damn good offensively. Offensive linemen are just as important if not more, we need someone like D'Brick that can anchor this offense for years to come. You guys need to learn the fundamentals of the game, someone like Ferguson can turn Cedric Houston into a superstar. Draft D'Bick!!
