Want good Debate Raiders versus Jets

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by Raiderjoe, May 7, 2006.

  1. Jake

    Jake Well-Known Member

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    Where was this amazing coverage ability last season?? You were around 20th in the league and have added one player (Huff) to the secondary... Please explain how you have such a great coverage ability. Also, where was these blitzing skills last season?? Seeing how you ranked right in the middle of the pack in sacks, I'd like to know where these blitzing skills were hiding last season. Johnstone is NOT as good as you make him out to be... He doesn't start fulltime for a reason.
     
  2. Jake

    Jake Well-Known Member

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    Come on Joe I know you just read what I've said please comment...
     
  3. Raiderjoe

    Raiderjoe Banned

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    Lets examine the points you made. ONE W Sapp had 5 sacks in 10 games in 2005. Hardly close to prime W sapp years. IF D robertson had 5 sacks in any season you would be doing cartwheels. T Sands was T washington backup.(Ed Jasper was seeing alot of time) Go look how many sacks Washington had or tackles. Thats not his game. He makes LBs job much easier.(look at how many tackles K morrison had) Wouldn't look at Sands numbers this season but players aroung him numbers.(thats how you should judge sands)

    TOM kelly is without a doubt Raiders best Dlineman(Its not even close) Burgess is a speed rusher who wouldn't be as effective if Kelly wasn't getting as much attention by olineman. Only team that played Kelly man to man was KC and he had three sacks against them(go look it up) . Lance Johnstone is player Raiders brought back to fold this year. He is just pass rush specialst to complement D burgess on the other side. Brillant.

    Point is with LDE D burgess LDT TOm kelly RDT W Sapp and RDE Lance Johnstone . They will put consistant pressure on a QB all day. More than jets can now muster.

    LBS - K Morrison I guess your the only person who never heard of him.. Kids a stud. Probably best suited like Clark for Middle LB. (will replace Clark fulltime at MLb in 2007) . Sam williams - was a LB at fresno ST who they rarely let lose after qb, as they needed him in coverage. He put on 15 pounds after his college season and at 6'5 265 ran a 4.56(didn't lose any speed ) raiders moved him to DE. He didn't do too good at De ,but working a Year against the OTs made him a much better lb . Few games he played he made a diffrence for the defense. Like D Burgess, If he stays healthy will be a big time lb(guy just had bad luck) Raiders have so many WLB types now ( Thomas Howard, D Bing and Robert thomas) All these guys are fast and can cover(something Raiders have lacked) . Biggest raiders achilles TEs and RB has been fixed with LBs and M huff.

    Raiders secondary was very good last year. you look where teams hurt them and it was TEs and RB that did most of the damge. That had alot to do with Raiders LBs or lack of abilty to cover(thats not the case anymore) Michael huff is final piece in secondary. N asomugha really came into his own and the more playing time he gets,the scary part is hes just going to get better. F washington played real well last season when he eventually made it into lineup(about half season) S routh could possible develop into best of all raiders CB. Not only great size but blazing speed. Where raiders stfrengthen themselve is with signing of D starks. He wasn't as good in New Englands cover two defense.(inured too) but hes much better fit in raiders man to man defense(also brings veteran presence in a ridiculous young defense)

    Raiders had unbelievable young defense last year. Those youngsters got alot of valuable playing time. They added alot of key pieces to Defense( M huff, D Bing , Thomas Howard, Robert Thomas, Lance Johnstone(pass rushing specialist, Duane Starks(better fit for raiders man defense) could be nickel Cb if routh needs more time, two players lost early last season- s williams and d gibson return. A Hawthorne who was On Raiders practice squad and added Seattle young run stuffing DT Rashad Moore 6'3 324.
    I thought last year defense was young but this one will be even younger. It fast and its nasty. Look out NFL- Raiders have a defense. Can't wait.
     
    #23 Raiderjoe, May 7, 2006
    Last edited: May 7, 2006
  4. Raiderjoe

    Raiderjoe Banned

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    Raiders Lost their two most experience players in secondary c woodson and d gibson very early last season. D gibson does very well on The tony Gonzalezs. (Tes)
    Go to NFL COms and Look game by game who was doing most of damge against raiders with pass. It was RBs and TEs.

    When Sam williams was lost . Raiders didn't have any LB that was good in coverage. Raiders didn't have LB depth and tryed to play with two massive DEs as lBs (Tylerr Brayton 6'6 285 and G Irons 6'5 285) IT was impossible to run on raiders when both of them were in there. Teams didn't try and would make sure they made sure one of those Des were matched up on someone in coverage. They were victimized badly) This forced the raiders to go with BIG Nickel defense. Alot easier for teams to run on raiders. had alot of Dbacks playing LB and they still couldn't match up to running backs or Tes.

    Raiders added alot OF real LBS that can cover(Sam Williams. Thomas Howard (fastest Lb 4.4 and former safety) D Bing 6'2 230 (safety that being moved to LB. Very fast for lB) Robert thomas EX UCLa star is fast and can cover very well. Michael Huff can play anywhere in secondary and gives raiders one best cover safetys in football. Now you add Veteran D Starks . Nickel CB thats a better fit in raiders man defense. L Johnstone was added to be complement to Burgess. last Tyler brayton who was playing out of position at OLB, Now returns to DE where he better suited to play. Supposedly improved his pass rushuing ability this offseason(very believable with best Dline coach K milliard who has developed pass rushers B Berry, r hayward and d Burgess)


    So it obvious passing down. D Burgess, Tom kelly, W sapp and L Johnstone is the dline. Vefy impressive and one that going to hit QB.
    You have two blazing LBs- former safetys( Thomas Howard and d Bing) in for coverage. N asomugha and F washington are cbs with D starks or S Roth Nickel CB. S schweigert the Fs(alot of range) and M Huff the SS. Huff can play Cb too. Now look T Howard, Bing, Huff, Asomugha, are all very good blitzers. Raiders could send any of those two at any time and they don't lose anything in coverage. For example they send Bing _ Howard can run with anyone. N Asomugha comes with bing and M huff picks up his man.(plays as a CB) They have countless possibilities.
     
  5. GreenMachine

    Moderator

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    We really need a grammar check option....
     
  6. plinko

    plinko Absolute Ruler

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    Getting into a good debate with you is somewhat of challenge since you never admit to being wrong. 10P10 is right, what happened to last year's predictions? What happened to your big, "well let's see what happens when our teams meet in December?" What happened to your guarantee that Tommy Kelly would have at least 10 sacks last year?

    Alot of LB that can cover? Sam Williams has 2 years of playing experience mostly on special teams. Thomas Howard and Bing are both rookies. My god pass what you are smoking over here because you are high.

    If I were a Raiders fan I'd be pissed off that Rob Ryan was still coaching the defense.
     
  7. lightning

    lightning Active Member

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    hell yea, that lead based face paint
     
  8. lightning

    lightning Active Member

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    oh and yea, is there any starting experience at all in those raiders' corners?
     
  9. BIG COUNTRY

    BIG COUNTRY Well-Known Member

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    Didnt you say kelly would have 16 sacks? I know it was something ridiculous. Oh btw, you did say your defense would be better than ours, you were wrong.
     
  10. fenwyr

    fenwyr Active Member

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    If we didn't sign Dyson, you might have a better secondary. Sorry, but Huff hasn't even put on an NFL uniform yet.

    If Vilma and Barton got hit by a bus, you might have better linebackers. Sorry, but this one isn't even close.

    On the DL you at least have a leg to stand on, but Ellis, Robertson, and Kimo are a well above average starting 3. If Robertson can make the transition to NT in the 3-4, this could be a suffocating starting 3, but the jury is still out on him.
     
  11. drnyjets

    drnyjets New Member

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    The Raiders will be picking number one overall next year. They are the worst run franchise in the NFL. Not even a contest.
     
  12. NJRaider

    NJRaider New Member

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    People who live in glass houses...
     
  13. Raiderjoe

    Raiderjoe Banned

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    No I said Tom kelly would have 10 plus. I was wrong on that one but I did envision him playing DT more. Raiders used him alot as DE on running downs and moved him to DT on passing downs(he also was nursing a couple injuries) Guy will get 10 sacks he has that kind of ability.
     
  14. Raiderjoe

    Raiderjoe Banned

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    Yes raiders young CBs have alot more starting experience than J miller, D straits. D barrett is just not a very good CB- slightly below average.

    Lets see F washington versus J miller Raiders not only passed on him once but twice. don't give me alot of teams were scaried by off field incidents.(Raiders are not one of those teams) They didn't think J Miller was that good. F Washington has alot more starting experience than J miller.

    N Asomugha versus D barrett This one not even close. N asomugha had a real sold year last year at Cb and only going to be better with more game experience. (going to get alot better) D barrett is a below average Cb that has no chance to get better.

    A Dyson/ D strait nickel Cb versus Duane starks- better fit for raiders D than patriots/ S routh- with more time might be Raiders best CB and thats saying something because asomugha and Washington are that good.
    Raiders are very familiar with A dyson as they have abused him everytime they have played against him

    M huff versus anyone in your secondary- Kids that good and IF plays safety offers the raiders best cover safety in football. Unless you think K rhodes is just as good.(since your dreaming dream big)

    FS S Scheigert versus E "Burnt coleman . Schweigert has great range but has to do better job being consistant tackler. E CFoleman great against the run but is terrible on deep passes . Raiders want the run defenders they have J cooper- light out surehanded tackler who coverage is not best. don't have to as raider have alot of guys that can cover.

    ITs going to be nice to see just how good jets secondary does without J abraham(who hid the secondary lack of talent)
    Only Jet fans would make a case for a below average secondary.
     
    #34 Raiderjoe, May 11, 2006
    Last edited: May 11, 2006
  15. phubbadaman

    phubbadaman Well-Known Member

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    Duane Starks isn't that good.
     
  16. Jake

    Jake Well-Known Member

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    Wow Joe you're such a homer. You think Starks is better than Dyson?! Come on man... Starks has been finished for years and Dyson has atleast been making big plays with some 4-5 INT seasons. They're both nothing special, but Starks is old, beat up and slow.
     
  17. NJRaider

    NJRaider New Member

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    Kind of irrelevant since Starks is a backup. Dyson is a starter, right?
     
  18. EcKo151

    EcKo151 Active Member

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    I'm really trying to understand Joe and his...

    We have CB S. Routt and N. Asomugha. Also D. Starks...With D. Burgess rushing the passer...and W. Sapp

    I'm pretty sure everyone on the board knows them by last name...But have at it:breakdance:. I don't quite understand the 1st initial in the player's 1st name...But that's just me.

    Yes, yes he is.
     
  19. Rambo13

    Rambo13 New Member

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    Why on Earth would you draft two Weak Side Linebackers? You guys don't have any other needs?? :rofl2:
     
  20. lightning

    lightning Active Member

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    Andre dyson is not a nickel CB, he's better than every single one of your guys. Justin miller started the second half of the season and was also very solid. He'll be starting opposite dyson.
     

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