Please Qualify the bolded. (I'm not saying I necessarily disagree what you wrote, I just want some elaboration on those two points)
Well, my point on him being very over-rated is that the Jets are 23-25 in the three seasons he's been GM. There are people on this board who think he's great, but if you look at the numbers he's only great compared to Matt Millen. He's pretty average compared to most GM's if you look at the most important factors which are the number of games the team has won and lost under his guidance. The other thing to realize is that the Jets have been really lucky with injuries the last three seasons on the way to that 23 and 25. Nobody key has spent time on IR in any of the seasons and the Jets injury list has tended to be slim most weeks.
No matter what our record's been - playoffs or bust, he's made us significant players in the offseason, which is really his only season to play with. He hasn't given up the farm during his tenure - we've still kept most of our young players during his reign. In hindsight, the Kendall thing was the only time I didn't agree with his dealing with a veteran based on the direct results of not filling his spot until Faneca (which made it a wash one year later). We HAD to do the Favre deal. And we still don't have an upcoming year to fear, where we're spread out so thin we have no shot of signing any free agent. So yes. All these years later, Bill Parcells' thumbprint on the Jets is still a work of success for years to come.
Yup'. Nicely stated. Tanny is so far fine. Lets hope Sanchez works out and Vernon comes to play. Besides that, the guy has done what he can with what he has draft wise and via FA. Some more dept??? Of course, but Im not down on this team for once. Cap Guru is also nicely stated. We are in far better shape then alot of teams. :hackett:
Not much IR time but alot of guys who played hurt and were affected b/c of it. The 3 moves that he made that were bad were: -Pete Kendall fiasco. Set the tone for 2007, our Ol was awful and it destroyed any chances we had but made up for it by strengthening OL in 2008. -Trade for favre/release of Chad. Cost us div title but again if Sanchez pans out it will have been worth it. -Drafting Gholston. This too can change as he's only played one year. His biggest mistakes have either been corrected or are in the process of being corrected. I like what he has done. The overall record isn't good b/c of a horrible 2007 but he took over a 4-12 team and helped us bounce back and after we went 4-12 in '07 he made moves to help us bounce back- he just made one too many moves in 2008.
Personally, I think his biggest mistake has been drafting too few players, particularly too few quality players. 2006 was a good draft, 2007 and 2008 shallow and 2009 shallow at best. He hasn't shown improvement in this area, IMO. Round 1, Pick 5 (5) (From Browns) Mark Sanchez QB Southern Cal - Wait and see Round 3, Pick 1 (65) (From Lions) Shonn Greene RB Iowa - Wait and see Round 6, Pick 20 (193) Matt Slauson OG Nebraska - Wait and see 2008 - New York Jets Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 6 Vernon Gholston LB Ohio State - ??? 1 30 Dustin Keller TE Purdue - Ace 4 113 Dwight Lowery CB San Jose State - Depth 5 162 Erik Ainge QB Tennessee - Who knows 6 171 Marcus Henry WR Kansas - PS 7 211 Nate Garner T Arkansas - Gone? 2007 - New York Jets Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 14 Darrelle Revis CB Pittsburgh - Ace 2 47 David Harris ILB Michigan - Ace 6 177 Jacob Bender T Nicholls State - Gone 7 235 Chansi Stuckey WR Clemson - Depth 2006 - New York Jets Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 4 D'Brickashaw Ferguson T Virginia - Starter 1 29 Nick Mangold C Ohio State - Ace 2 49 Kellen Clemens QB Oregon - ??? 3 76 Anthony Schlegel LB Ohio State - Gone 3 97 Eric Smith DB Michigan State - Depth 4 103 Brad Smith WR Missouri - Depth 4 117 Leon Washington RB Florida State - Ace 5 150 Jason Pociask TE Wisconsin - Gone 6 189 Drew Coleman CB Texas Christian - Depth 7 220 Titus Adams DT Nebraska - Gone
I hear what you are saying, however, I don't think you judge a GM in a 3 year time period solely (or even predominantly) on W/L record. He's procured a lot of good talent and managed the cap very well. The team's record always is a reflection of a long list of factors, only one of which is the talent the GM has been able to stock the roster with. (Last the year the Jets were 8-3 before Favre started playing like a buffoon - Do we blame Tanny for Favre's collapse? Only slightly, if at all)
If Tannenbaum fails he will have achieved one thing for his successor that was not given to him when he came in: he will have acquired a handful of players that are truly topnotch that if combined with a normal talent acquisition process could make the Jets a very strong team shortly after he leaves. The Jets will likely have Nick Mangold, Darrelle Revis, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Mark Sanchez, Leon Washington and Dustin Keller as a direct result of decisions he made during his tenure. Bradway's leavings for Tannenbaum were basically Kerry Rhodes and Jerrico Cotchery, which is one of the reasons the Jets have been so up and down during Tannenbaum's tenure. Tannenbaum at least will leave the next regime a better hand to play.
Look at the list that you've put there... and I'll include Shonn Greene in there since I feel he was the steal of the decade... how can Tannenbaum possibly be fired? He's been awesome... so far Gholston is the biggest question mark, and Schlegel really the only hardcore bust he's brought in... he seems to have made the best moves at every juncture and gotten the coaches exactly what they've wanted... what more can you ask of a GM? When it comes down to winning and losing, you need to look at whether we lost because of coaching or talent... last year was clearly a case of coaching. That can't be held over Tannenbaum.
Should Vinny Cerrato be fired in Washington? The point of the NFL is not to have big names on your roster and always have a selection of stars, the point is to win the Super Bowl and failing that to be in contention for it on a consistent basis. If this game was just about finding young stars at all costs then Tannenbaum would rank with the best of them. It's not about that.
Tannenbaum hand-picked Mangini to coach because of a personal relationship. I don't see how you can absolve him at all.
I don't see how you can possibly compare our situation to Washington. A majority of the Jets nuclear of players is home-grown. We did acquire Jenkins, Faneca/Woody, Pace - all moves that turned out to be very good moves. The point IS to win the Super Bowl, but only 1 team can do it every year and to think that the other 31 are all complete and utter failures because they don't is absurd. Teams work and build towards it and after enough trial and error, the good ones eventually get it right. Look at the Colts... it took them years to reach the Super Bowl but they eventually did it. They weren't failures because they failed every year before they did win the Super Bowl.
Mangini was a failure, but I don't think it is a failure worthy of firing Tannenbaum over. Tannenbaum took a chance on a coach he was familiar with, was considered to be a good young up and coming coach, who came from a system that is absolutely worthy of respect. Mangini's failures had more to do with his way of doing things and how he treated the team professionally then because of his actual X's and O's coaching. Mangini was a failure, and likely would've went nowhere had he stayed on - but he wasn't exactly Rich Kotite. He coached up a team that is extremely talented and now that they're going to be given the opportunity to open up I believe we're in for very good times ahead.
Neither the Jets nor the Redskins have been in Super Bowl contention at any point during the current GM's tenures. For Tannenbaum we're still a little bit early in the process to say conclusively that a team he GM's is incapable of being a Super Bowl contender, let alone a consistent one, for Cerrato it's clear that is the case. As to the Colts: they were a serious Super Bowl contender every year that they took the field between 2002 and 2008. Really they were a contender every year between 2000 and 2008, with 2001 getting Jim Mora fired because they underperformed so badly. They finally won the Super Bowl primarily because EVERY year they were in the mix. Now compare this to the Redskins and the Jets and you begin to see why the Bradway/Tannenbaum and Snyder/Cerrato systems have failed in the basic task of competing in the NFL. They've been overly concerned with having clearly talented players as their centerpieces, and unprepared to actually flesh out a roster with the 50-odd guys you need to win a Super Bowl.
Mangini also failed to put his players in position to succeed. He put in place a rigid base 3-4 when he didn't have the personnel to run it. DRob at NT - fail. Vilma at 3-4 ILB - fail. His Inexperience and inflexibility were exposed in the early stages in '06 and '07, and even more so when he finally had a lot of the pieces in place and then encountered the adversity of injuries in 2008. No, he wasn't Kotex, but not every boat crash has to be the Titanic. And the fact that Tanny took a chance on him is a black mark, however you want to spin it. He gave his good buddy the reins to the Jets.
Maybe we just have different opinions on the roster but what I see is a team that has been evolving into a very powerful one that should be in the mix sooner rather than later. I keep seeing these predictions about how the Jets are going to go anywhere from 6-10 to 8-8... I call bull on that. I'm expecting the Jets to go 10-6 to 12-4. Call me a homer, but I love the way the team is structured, from the defense, the offensive line, the running backs - our only glaring weakness is in the passing game, but teams have won without that. I'd argue that we compare more to Jacksonville than any other team in the league right now... except I have faith that not only are we a better built team, but that our new coaching staff seems to have enough pedigree behind it that they should be able to take what they've inherited and make magic with it.
