http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/messages/thread/15395741 Good article with a few Vernon quotes I hadn't seen before. Under the article (pasted below) were a few comments, including one from "dejabrewer" which claims to be an excerpt from his wonderlic test. I mostly doubt it can be trusted, but it's worth reading anyway... ok fine, I'll post the comment, too. FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- This is the time of year when, as New York Jets' coach Rex Ryan put it, "we expect big things out of everyone." Only the expectations for some players are higher, and, yes, I'm talking about linebacker Vernon Gholston. A year ago he was the sixth player chosen in the draft, and a year ago he did virtually nothing for the Jets. He seldom played. He made few tackles. He produced no sacks. In short, he had no impact. But one year later the Jets -- OK, Ryan -- are talking him up, saying Gholston will be a factor, and potentially a major factor, in an improved defense. Ryan is reluctant to define what role he envisions for Gholston, but he is straightforward about his future. "Vernon definitely will be able to help us this year," he said. "We're expecting him to." Well, hear, hear. That is welcome news for owner Woody Johnson, who sank millions in Gholston, and the legions of Jets' fans who cheered Gholston's selection at last year's draft. The former Ohio State star was supposed to be the perfect fit for then-coach Eric Mangini's 3-4 defense -- with Gholston himself predicting that "I'm going to make things happen." Only, he didn't. His 13 tackles barely made a blip on the Jets' radar, with critics slapping a "bust" label on the poor guy. But they were premature, and they may be wrong because Gholston is on the right team at the right time to make something of himself. Not only has Ryan taken him on as something of a pet project -- once declaring that, "We hope he can be a great player" and that "if he can't do it for me and this team he's not going to do it" -- but his defense is ideally suited for Gholston's considerable talents. "Certain players have different skills," said linebacker Bart Scott, "and it allows them to do those things. No matter what occupation you're in you want the freedom to be yourself. Nobody wants to be a robot. If that's the case, go play Madden." But a robot is what Gholston felt like last season, trying to get his steps and the discipline of Mangini's defense down after missing early workouts because of school commitments. It wasn't easy. It never is for rookies. So Gholston struggled, and the more he fell behind the steeper the learning curve became -- with the Jets not suiting him up for their 14th game. "The biggest difference is just being here," Gholston said after Wednesday's workout. "Last year [at this time] I was at Ohio State sitting on my couch and eating chips. Now you're actually going through the install and working with the team, getting the calls and signals and learning the ins and outs of the defense. "Overall, I would say that this defense is more suited to me because I can just play rather than think. That makes a difference because that's how I like to play." But I'll tell you what else makes a difference: Having Scott around to serve as Gholston's mentor. Scott excelled in Ryan's defense in Baltimore and was the Jets' most notable free-agent acquisition. Without Ryan, Scott would not have considered joining the Jets. But he's here, and he's here to help Gholston who, it just so happens, comes from Scott's hometown, Detroit, and played in the same high-school league. "The guy works hard, he's coachable and he listens," Scott said of his teammate. "Plus, he's a genetic freak. He's fast. He's athletic. And he's strong. "But he has to decide that he wants to be great. It's not only to put the work in physically; you have to put the work in mentally. The more you know and actually mature in this game, the more it slows down for you and allows you to take advantage so you're not reacting. "I don't know what the situation was here last year, but I know it was a different attitude, a different vibe and a different energy that was going around. Now it's a different vibe, a different energy and he can embrace it. He can make football more enjoyable again. And he can really be the player we know he's capable of being." Who or what that player is I'm not sure anyone is certain. For now, Ryan said he sees Gholston as a "contributor," and that's a start. If you look at what he contributed in his rookie season, he's already making improvements in that department. People close to the club said he's more noticeable in practice, making plays where a year ago he made none. Of course, it's June, the Jets are not in pads and opponents haven't been engaged. But so far, so good for Vernon Gholston, and if you don't believe me maybe you should listen to Ryan. "I just know he's going to be a big part of what we do and a big part of our success," the Jets coach said. I'm confident in what I see out there right now, and I think his confidence is up. "I know where Vernon was drafted and all that kind of stuff, and that there are expectations for him individually. But I think we're wrong doing that. We just need to place our expectations on [the defense]. Sometimes in the stats he might not show up individually, but he might play a great game. I remember [Baltimore linebacker] Jarret Johnson had as good a game as you might see, and he made one tackle. Yet he created a lot of tackles for other people. "Let's see how this group does and how we perform collectively. I know we'll be happy." They already are. In fact, Jets' safety Kerry Rhodes is so enamored he predicted that the Jets will be the league's best defense this season. Maybe. For the moment, all I want to know is how Gholston fits in that defense and whether he becomes the player the Jets envisioned when they made him their first draft pick a year ago. "I expect to be on the field more and to play more," Gholston said. "To say I'm going to get this many sacks ... you can't because you don't know what you're going to be doing as a defense. But I have nothing to prove to nobody. For me it's not about proving something; it's about just going out there and doing it. "I expect to play at a high level, and I expect to be one of the best players. To say that's going to happen tomorrow, it's probably not. To say it's going to happen in a year, it's probably not. But at some point that's my expectation." COMMENT:Vernon didn't do to well on: DedicationReceptivity to CoachingSocial MaturityMental Quickness <!--StartFragment--> Gholston will not argue with his teammates and coaches or challenge them openly. But he sometimes feels that he knows more than his coaches do about how the game should be played, so he may be a little stubborn about consistently following their advice and instructions. Coaches will have to monitor him to make sure that he is showing adequate commitment to preparation and following through on what they have taught him. His dedication is also slightly below average, which further reinforces the need for coaches to question him on the details of his execution, reads and responsibilities to ensure that he is prepared, and understands everything needed for him to be completely ready to play. <!--EndFragment-->
Chill the bust talk, Ryan has big plans for Gholston Didn't see it anywhere on the front page. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11820317 June 4, 2009 By Clark Judge CBSSports.com Senior Writer Tell Clark your opinion! FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- This is the time of year when, as New York Jets' coach Rex Ryan put it, "we expect big things out of everyone." Only the expectations for some players are higher, and, yes, I'm talking about linebacker Vernon Gholston. A year ago he was the sixth player chosen in the draft, and a year ago he did virtually nothing for the Jets. He seldom played. He made few tackles. He produced no sacks. In short, he had no impact. Gholston got a late rookie start and never made an impact in Eric Mangini's system. (US Presswire) But one year later the Jets -- OK, Ryan -- are talking him up, saying Gholston will be a factor, and potentially a major factor, in an improved defense. Ryan is reluctant to define what role he envisions for Gholston, but he is straightforward about his future. "Vernon definitely will be able to help us this year," he said. "We're expecting him to." Well, hear, hear. That is welcome news for owner Woody Johnson, who sank millions in Gholston, and the legions of Jets' fans who cheered Gholston's selection at last year's draft. The former Ohio State star was supposed to be the perfect fit for then-coach Eric Mangini's 3-4 defense -- with Gholston himself predicting that "I'm going to make things happen." Only, he didn't. His 13 tackles barely made a blip on the Jets' radar, with critics slapping a "bust" label on the poor guy. But they were premature, and they may be wrong because Gholston is on the right team at the right time to make something of himself. Not only has Ryan taken him on as something of a pet project -- once declaring that, "We hope he can be a great player" and that "if he can't do it for me and this team he's not going to do it" -- but his defense is ideally suited for Gholston's considerable talents. "Certain players have different skills," said linebacker Bart Scott, "and it allows them to do those things. No matter what occupation you're in you want the freedom to be yourself. Nobody wants to be a robot. If that's the case, go play Madden." But a robot is what Gholston felt like last season, trying to get his steps and the discipline of Mangini's defense down after missing early workouts because of school commitments. It wasn't easy. It never is for rookies. So Gholston struggled, and the more he fell behind the steeper the learning curve became -- with the Jets not suiting him up for their 14th game. "The biggest difference is just being here," Gholston said after Wednesday's workout. "Last year [at this time] I was at Ohio State sitting on my couch and eating chips. Now you're actually going through the install and working with the team, getting the calls and signals and learning the ins and outs of the defense. "Overall, I would say that this defense is more suited to me because I can just play rather than think. That makes a difference because that's how I like to play." Fans celebrated when the Jets drafted Vernon Gholston but aren't so sure now. (US Presswire) But I'll tell you what else makes a difference: Having Scott around to serve as Gholston's mentor. Scott excelled in Ryan's defense in Baltimore and was the Jets' most notable free-agent acquisition. Without Ryan, Scott would not have considered joining the Jets. But he's here, and he's here to help Gholston who, it just so happens, comes from Scott's hometown, Detroit, and played in the same high-school league. "The guy works hard, he's coachable and he listens," Scott said of his teammate. "Plus, he's a genetic freak. He's fast. He's athletic. And he's strong. "But he has to decide that he wants to be great. It's not only to put the work in physically; you have to put the work in mentally. The more you know and actually mature in this game, the more it slows down for you and allows you to take advantage so you're not reacting. "I don't know what the situation was here last year, but I know it was a different attitude, a different vibe and a different energy that was going around. Now it's a different vibe, a different energy and he can embrace it. He can make football more enjoyable again. And he can really be the player we know he's capable of being." Who or what that player is I'm not sure anyone is certain. For now, Ryan said he sees Gholston as a "contributor," and that's a start. If you look at what he contributed in his rookie season, he's already making improvements in that department. People close to the club said he's more noticeable in practice, making plays where a year ago he made none. Of course, it's June, the Jets are not in pads and opponents haven't been engaged. But so far, so good for Vernon Gholston, and if you don't believe me maybe you should listen to Ryan. "I just know he's going to be a big part of what we do and a big part of our success," the Jets coach said. I'm confident in what I see out there right now, and I think his confidence is up. "I know where Vernon was drafted and all that kind of stuff, and that there are expectations for him individually. But I think we're wrong doing that. We just need to place our expectations on [the defense]. Sometimes in the stats he might not show up individually, but he might play a great game. I remember [Baltimore linebacker] Jarret Johnson had as good a game as you might see, and he made one tackle. Yet he created a lot of tackles for other people. "Let's see how this group does and how we perform collectively. I know we'll be happy." They already are. In fact, Jets' safety Kerry Rhodes is so enamored he predicted that the Jets will be the league's best defense this season. Maybe. For the moment, all I want to know is how Gholston fits in that defense and whether he becomes the player the Jets envisioned when they made him their first draft pick a year ago. "I expect to be on the field more and to play more," Gholston said. "To say I'm going to get this many sacks ... you can't because you don't know what you're going to be doing as a defense. But I have nothing to prove to nobody. For me it's not about proving something; it's about just going out there and doing it. "I expect to play at a high level, and I expect to be one of the best players. To say that's going to happen tomorrow, it's probably not. To say it's going to happen in a year, it's probably not. But at some point that's my expectation."
This is exactly what I've been saying over and over again. I really think this was his biggest issue last year.
The big question with Gholston is "does he really like to play? If he doesn't like football, and there are indications that he doesn't like the game, let alone love it, then it's going to take a really disciplined hard ass coaching staff to get the best out of him. Hand Gholston to Parcells and you'd find out in a hurry if he was going to make it or not. Parcells doesn't mess around with players, he finds out if they can play and then he runs an attitude check and if the attitude check fails he blisters their ass for awhile and then cuts them loose if that doesn't work. My gut tells me that if Ryan is riding Gholston hard all offseason that he has a chance to make it and if Gholston is left to his own devices in terms of motivation he doesn't. I'd put Scott on him full time as his handler and see what happens. That'd justify the big contract at least, since salvaging Gholston would be a huge benefit for the Jets and losing him would be a huge loss. BTW, in retrospect I think you never should spend a first round pick on a player who does not love the game and love to win. I thought Gholston was the only choice for the Jets last year on the 6 and I support the pick they made, but I also think I learned something watching him struggle last year and I'd never support a motivational problem as a first round pick again regardless of how talented the guy was. You have to get great value out of your first round pick and if the buzz says the guy does not love the game that should be a disqualifier in my opinion, because those guys have a strike against them before they even come in the door.
Br4dw4y5ux, I don't think it matters with him as to whether he likes it., I just think he doesn't get it. He was way overrated as a football player coming out of the draft. Great athlete, but he doesn't have good football instincts. I wished back then they'd have passed on him in the draft. Same story as D-Rob: decent to good college career followed by an outstanding showing at the combine, and playing in a strong position. Matt Jones was the same way. I hate when the Jets draft these guys.
I think there are some people who are so talented that things come easy to them and they don't know much about working hard. There was a question about mathematics and the question was does one have to be gifted to excel in math and the answer was no. Those who are truly talented are rare. The real answer was having the discipline to sit down and work on it. Some say it is better to struggle early because you would have to work for what you get and you develop a strong work ethic if you want to succeed. But for those people who are truly talented, sometimes they don't work hard because everything came easy. But when they eventually come up against an obstacle that is harder than they are normally used to, they usually become mediocre or quit. They never had a strong work ethic and it catches up with them. Hope that is not the case. We'll soon see
Let's not forget he switched positions and rarely saw the field. One can't "produce" if one doesn't play.
I just find it hard to believe that VG doesn't Love the game... I wasn't a big fan of Mangini's but, the one thing I gave him credit for was finding guys that love the game and putting together some decent talent..... This is the guy who drafted Schlegel in the 3rd because of "love of the game" and little else....... Unless VG did a great sales job, I always thought Mangini's step 1 was to determine if the guy was a FOOTBALL PLAYER.... I guess we shall see. * I do believe though it was more about Mangini's Defense and system over love of the game that set him back... Remember VG went out of his way to seek out LT..... I think he was just lost trying to think to much in Mangini's strict system on and off the field... Now, he's free to roam....
I believe this to be the case as well. Certainly, its obvious he is not a rah rah leader type, but I get the impression he is very proud and, if you go back over his quotes since the draft process, you'll see him mention how important TEAM success is to him. I think he "gets it" in the way that Rex wants the team to "get it." I'm a little worried that Ryan hasn't talked up Gholston MORE, frankly, but hey, I believe in Vernon and I think he's going to make at least a few highlight reel plays this year (personally I'm envisioning him throwing a FB into the RB a la Jenx)
Rex has something nice to say about everyone, geez, he's got BT as another LT. It means nothing, he's has not seen shit yet, they have not even put the pads on hit. Stop feeding into the hype.
Yeah, I'm getting a little sick of Rex Hype. Every single player on the team is an excellent football player that's going to have a lot to offer the team. I guess he has to say something, but every sentence he says is made into a statement, like he's rating the roster instead of shining on the reporters. I guess we had to expect a lot of fluff after Mangini left. He was bad for advertising.
Have you ever met a professional mathematician? I know a guy with an Erdos number of 3 who left mathematics to make over $200K a year writing software for chip design. He can read the most complicated equation as quickly and as easily as you or I can read a children's book. Some of it is work, but most of it is talent. What most of us would call math he refers to as mere arithmetic, figuring out answers is so easy to him that the only challenge is in formulating proofs.
Rex is on record that the measure of a coach is how well the backups perform because the starters are good enough to get by on talent. He says it and I think he really means it. He wants to get the Trusniks and Kareem Browns of the world to go out there and surprise people, that is his mindset. So lets give him at least one season before we declare him a fraud.
There's no question that genius exists, but in my experience for most people the saying "success is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration" applies as much to mathematical research as it does to everything else, and training is crucial (formulating proofs is hard work). Of course, I don't know that that has much to do with whether Gholston is a legitimate NFL player. BTW, my Erdos number is also 3!
I think Gholston had a much better college career than D-Rob though. He was a major factor on one of the best defenses in the land, playing against a fairly tough schedule. I completely agree on the athlete vs instincts thing though. It pisses me off that the Pats got Mayo, who is a much better *player* with half of Gholston's natural ability on the pick right behind us. Say what you want about Belichik but he definitely knows how to take a pick and make us look bad. He did the same thing with Ty Warren in 2003 right after we made a massive effort to trade up for D-Rob. I guess the thing I really can't figure out for the life of me is why the Jets don't just do the smart thing year after year and take the BPA on their pick, or move up or down a little to accommodate taking the BPA and filling a need. I'm a big fan of the Sanchez trade up but I haven't liked any other trade up that they've made, including Revis, and I hold those trade ups to be one of the major reasons we've become a second class team again after briefly surfacing in 1998.
I agree w/you on pretty much everything said except for the trade ups in the 2007 draft. Remember, we traded up twice - once for Revis & then for D. Harris. If you look back on that 2007 draft, it was very weak after the 3rd round -- a lot of those names I've havent heard boo from. So in retrospect, it seemed that trading up in that case made a lot of sense. Our problem has been catch-22. It seems like we were always a couple of players away from making the top tier in the league -- hence the trade-ups to draft by position. But at the same time, you are right -- it shot us in the foot by giving up draft picks, not trading down, etc in order to get BPA as well as building the entire roster + the backups --- like the NY Giants have been effective with lately.
