I almost hesitate to post this here, because some her are conditioned like Pavolov's dogs to go into attack mode if they hear either of the names on ether side of this story. And I probably won't comment myself for similar reasons. But here is Peter King's MMQB for today on this subject - if you cna get past the knee jerk reactions of "I'm sick of this!", there's actually quite a bit relevant to the outcome of the Jets 08 season here, especially the part about the injury and his lack of conditioning: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/02/15/favre/index.html
The article seems accurate, something Peter King usually is not. Well, lesson learned. Time to move on. Time to hands the reigns to one of the guys we've been grooming for a few years now.
Here lies the problem. He knew he was hurt, knew he could not make the throws, yet made no effort to pull himself out of the games.
Yes, I found myself thinking that too. On the other hand, do you really want player who pull themselves out of games? I think you want players who will keep doing whatever they can do, as long as they can, and leave it to coaches to decide when it is not enough. Seriously, there are a lot of people here who feel like Favre's play in those final games "proves" that he "quit." How much would they be reaming him a new one if he had decided to walk of the field without his coaches asking him to? At the very least, they (those who said this) cannot complain now that he did NOT quit. It isn't that he kept playing that is an issue IMO. The question (still unclear to me) is, did the coaches know he had this problem, and why didn't they make this move for him. I can't believe they did not know. Even Jaworski figured out that he was hurt, right away, by going through the film of the Bengals game (this was his week 8 NFL Matchup show, he had a segment on it). ANd the coaches were giving favre cortisone shots I read. So why no action at the end. Favre says in this interview he was "miserable" that month, so I kinda doubt he would have fought too hard against it.
Yes he absolutely should have, and so should have Mangini. If they weren't going to take him out of the game, they shouldn't have been passing the ball so damn much. Especially in the miserable conditions on the road against Seattle.
Yeah, good point. All those passing play calls, in dubious situations, & when yo have a solid run game. And the later rumors that Mangini was overriding Schotty's play calls. Hmmm ... And before anyone starts the nonsense all over: Favre did not call the plays. When they lined up in the shotgun on 3rd and short, that was not because Favre wanted to -- that was the play sent into him.
The blame is equal on the staff (if they knew) and Favre. If you are about the team and winning, then you approach the staff and say I cannot do it, I am hurt and hurting the team. Favre with his streak, who would not believe him to be telling the truth? Mangini and staff in their case were probably just afraid to piss off Favre and upper management so they just played the card they were dealt. I mean, can you imagine the backlash if they benched Favre and they still lost?
And I don't mind passing on third and one from time to time. But at least do it from under center with some playaction.
eh im glad he played through the pain and kept the streak going. we probably weren't going anywhere no matter who was qb the way that defense was playing. one thing this board does not need is more history to bitch about. giving the overly negative another thing to list as a problem with the franchise's history would be bad. "not only did we cut the greatest qb ever in chad pennington, but we also managed to end brett favres consecutive games started streak." yeah not something i would have liked to see discussed for years.
I think as a coach (or any manager of people) you have to know who you have working for you, and how they tick. Expecting a guy who played half a year with a broken thumb, and who only went out one play after spitting up blood, to say "hey, I cannot do it" is sort of denying reality. If there is one thing about Favre -- he gets both knocked and admired for it, but either way it's his "signature" -- is that he never says "I can't do it." If he's down by 3TDs in the 4th quarter, he's still doing whatever it takes (usually taking really relly low payoff risks) to roll the dice and see if he can't pull it out. It's who he is, and for the most part it's been a positive to what he has done. The end of this season was the first time in my memory where an injured Favre went multiple games and sucked, he's always somehow played even better with adversity before in his career. So this was a new situation. Mangini (or whoever) failed that test. Just for the record, I probably would have too. I don't deny that it would have taken a lot of balls to do that. But maybe Favre would have gone along with it, who knows. If what people here were saying is correct -- that he already "checked out" before the end of the season -- then he probably would consider his consecutive QB streak done anway. Maybe you're right and PR dictated all this. If so that's sad, and it says there's something deeply wrong with the Jets, that maybe even Mangini+Favre's departures doesn't solve. But I just disagree that you should expect players to remove themselves from games. Maybe TO or Moss will do that, but not Favre, expecting that is living in lala land, they pay the coaches too much for me to give them a pass on this.
The streak shouldn't have been a factor in any decision making process for the CS. They have to be able to make difficult decisions to give the team the best chance to win. Maybe this is part of the reason Mangini was fired?
Article proves what we all know , Favre is more obsessed with himself than any team he plays for hence his reticnce to pull himself out. Right can we now end this love affair !
your right, but i think it was. it would also be motivation for favre to push himself through the pain. even though it shouldn't have been a factor it had to have some influence on all involved.
Never once in the last 5 games did I see Favre favor his arm after throwing a pass..lean over in pain..which the cameras would have caught since they had a camera on him at all times. Never once..did I see him make a throw that involved an injured arm. The passes that were deep were usually overthrown. All I saw was poor decisions..that became worse as the year went on. His mind went just as much as his body..and the poor decisons he made his entire career got worse. This injury crap is a b.s. Its attempt to cover up that Favre became a product of his entire career in a 5 game snapshot. He had no coach that threatened to pull him..he had nobody in his face telling him he was playing selfish..not because of inury..but because of who he truly is/was. Was he hurt? Not anymore then he was at anytime during his either selfish career..or incredibly dumb career..of making horrible passes in crucial times.
If Brett Favre went to Mangini and said he was too hurt to play the rest of the season, and the Jets did anything but make the Super Bowl, every single one of the fans on this board would be calling for Brett's head, saying he didn't bring all he had to New York and that he was a quitter.
puddnhead, this is what I was thinking as well. Just did not how to put it into words. Imagine the backlash, it would have been horrendous.
Some forget that some of Favre's best games ever came in games after an injury or games during a season with a significant injury. Favre was probably surprised with how things turned out. It is easier to reflect upon things now in retrospect rather than as they occured at that time. Favre finally became human this year rather than the Iron Man that he was throughout his career.
the real problem with the article has nothing to do with favre, but kings comments about a-roid. as usual king had to find a way to piss off new yorkers.
let me see if I got this straight... So the guy that doesn't ever know if he wants to play football is mad at the GM who's first order of business was getting a possible replacement for said guy. Priceless.
