and it's not even close. In addition to energy and emotion (something foreign to Mangini) Spags would likely bring the 4-3 defense to the jets. OK, hear me out...for all of you who complain that "We can't start over with a new defensive scheme," just look at 2008. We just FINISHED THE THIRD YEAR of Mangini's 3-4 and OUR 2008 DEFENSE STUNK! We made Shaun Hill, Seneca Wallace, and Tyler Thigpen look like pro bowlers. Jay Cutler and Kurt Warner ate our lunch. We do NOT have anything close to the required athletic outside linebackers to play the 3-4, and we have over $20m GUARENTEED to Gholston, who proved he cannot play OLB. If we stay with the 3-4, it will take a new coach at least a year to figure out that Bryan Thomas stinks at OLB, as Thomas will get to start since he always has. IMO it is so damn stupid to KEEP playing a 3-4, just because "we've been doing that for the last three years." Good teams ADJUST and fix what is not working, and I think a high energy coach with a new scheme is just what the generic jets need. Now, I know 90% on this board are married to the 3-4, because, "hey, change is bad right?" Go ahead, post away, let's keep the 3-4, and we'll all continue watching opposing QBs have all day to throw while Calvin Pace and Bryan Thomas take forever to get around the corner.
can't say im against a change to the 4-3. they could put gholston back at end and let him do what he does best and rush the passer. i dont know if he could ever close to john abraham status but with the right coaching he has the physical attributes to be a beast. then we would need one more speedy linebacker to compliment harris and pace. also another d lineman to go with jenkins. and they would need to find a replacement for ellis who probably has one or two more good years left. im pretty much open to anything that would give this defense a kick in the ass. they have the potential to be very good and underachieved horribly this year.
Yeah I'm starting to go with Spagnoli, you need a guy that definately had an impact on the team, not one of these former New England coaches. I think we can still switch to a 4-3, Jenkins played that until this season. Ellis is a 4-3 DE, maybe Gholston could be tried at this position too. We just need to concentrate on the DT position in FA and the draft.
No more new gambles. Spags would be a horrible choice (just as I said Mandoofis would be a horrible choice) and will not work out if hired. And I’m sick of the notion that a coach has to scream at players to get them in the game. Tony Dungy is one of the best coaches in the league over the last 10 years and you would have to check his pulse to know he is alive on the sidelines.
Agree with ukilledkenny and the OP. Our important personnel are not necessarily wrong for the 4-3. Would it take some treaking - sure. However, I believe that the current roster with some additions could definitely play better than the 2008 edition of the Jets defense. It's usually easier to find 4-3 personnel anyway. I would rather have the best defensive mind as the HC/DC then worry about the exact alignment that he likes to run.
Here's why the 3-4 hasn't worked yet: Sutton is the biggest reason, he's a vagina. And it doesn't help that the old HC was removed of playcalling duties in NE in 2005 because the players he was coaching wanted to play a "more physical" type of defense, which made Belichick the playcaller at the end of that year. That means Sutton and Mangini are both pussies when it comes to defensive philisophies. Jenkins got tired, maybe hurt too. But adjustments were not made either. The OLB are all 4-3 DEs that were converted, because they couldn't play DE very well either. Pace and Thomas both sucked at 4-3 DE. Pace has been great in the 3-4 at least. He is not the pass rushing specialist, he is the all around OLB. But the Jets need to draft a pure 3-4 OLB out of college. Sutton again. The right personnel is almost there, but not completely, and those coordinating the defense were going to give you a scary defense. Go get a 3-4 head coach that has balls with a DC that is his equal. Then they draft 3-4 players that can smack you in the mouth. Then you'll watch it work.... its going to take more time, get over it. Going back to the 4-3 fucks it all up again.
You're wrong on several fronts. First of all, it doesn't matter how much you are paying Gholston, if he isn't going to produce then he isn't going to produce. Pass-rushing is actually easier as a 3-4 OLB because the scheme can hide where you're coming from. A good 3-4 coach could deploy him effectively and get him matched up on HBs as opposed to OTs. Watch his college tape, he has no pass-rushing moves save the bullrush. That will work on guys that aren't offensive lineman. The 3-4 works best in setting up this scenario. The last 3 years have been rough defensively because of the transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4. Now that this is all done and the only missing piece is a solid backup NT for Jenkins, you want to go back? Brilliant!
I?ve already said ? I?ll take anyone with a proven track record. Cowher, Marty, Shannahan ? they?re all the same just some have been luckier than others in the post season. I?d take Marty fifty times over some new wing nut with zero experience that is going to waste another four years. I?m still holding on to the hope that the cowher out is just a bluff but if he is my next choice would be Marty.
While I agree that we shouldn't switch to the 4-3, I have to disagree with that. There are a few key problems on our defense, mostly at Safety and ILB. With a good draft, we should be able to snag Taylor Mays/William Moore and maybe an ILB like Clint Sintim if we trade up into the late 1st/early 2nd. If Ryan is hired and we do draft a good safety and ILB, our defense can be very good next year. A lot of it depends on the development of both Lowery and Gholston. Lowery did a solid job as a Rookie and if he can become a solid 2nd CB, then it will really help out the pass defense. I think if an aggressive HC comes in like Rex or Spagnuolo, Gholston will really benefit from being able to rush the passer.
Thanks for the laugh of the Day ("The ONLY missing piece is a solid Backup NT to Jenkins" (?). Sorry, but I think we're missing a few more pieces. As far as you "brilliant" sarcasm, I won't stoop to your level of insults.
FriendlyGiantsFan will be more than happy to tell you how great our 3 ? 4 defense was this year; yes that same 3 ? 4 defense that pretty much looked like the Mets bullpen all year and yes ? that same 3 ? 4 defense that are all back at their winder homes this week playing golf.
Yeah I really dont want Spags as an option, we need someone who has a proven record. Someone who will command the locker room as soon as he walks in. We dont need another "hot" candidate.
I never said the defense was perfect, but there is a big difference between having the personnel not talented enough (such is the case with guys like Abram Elam) and having guys simply playing out of position for the defensive scheme. The latter of these two things is much harder to overcome, and that hurdle has nearly been cleared. Acquiring talent in coverage is going to be a priority regardless of the defensive scheme run, though I agree it is a need.
The lack of coverage players is going to be a problem regardless of the defensive scheme. If you switch to a 3-4 you upset your LB corp alot. This team doesn't have any OLBs that can play in a 3-4, converted DEs don't generally make that transition. Before you criticize, consider the situation. Lowery will have another year of experience and will be a better conditioned player next year (something few seem to be mentioning) and brining in a coverage ILB for a 3-4 is quite a bit easier than bringing in several new LBs to run a 4-3. And I'm sorry if you perceive there to be any insult in there, maybe some of us are more hungover than others. Either way, it was not my intent to start an internet shitfest with you.
