Brett's bandwagon

I understand that we were never trailing in the NE game. But come on. We needed him late in the 4th and he delivered a long, time-consuming drive for a TD. Then we needed him again in OT and he delivered yet again another long, time-consuming flawless drive where he clutched a couple 3rd downs INCLUDING a 3rd and 15 from the brink of our own endzone. This game clearly illustrated what winston conveyed in his post about why the Jets went out and got Favre.

 

I'm not taking anything away from him there, he did a great job for us. I'm just using the logic that was thrown at me.

 

He has upgraded us because the guy who played Qb before him for our team could not and will never do what Farve has done. We are upgraded because we have someone behind center with the experience and the resume to get the job done. Nobody can do it every week but at least with Farve we have a chance with the wind whipping in the Meadowlands in Jan. That is an upgrade in itself.

 

I see your point. Favre really needs to stay away from throwing to the deep receivers when separation is not there, especially in cover 2. I think it is a combination of not being totally comfortable in the pocket as well as inability for wide outs to get separation. No slight on JETS wideouts they are very talented, great hands, smart and very impressive football receivers- but they do not seem to get "separated" from safeties. Last year he had the speed outside, but he must adapt (to some extent he has). Its ok - jets can attack in other areas. My point is... he (still) has the tenacity to come back from "bad plays" and quarterback momentum and make the throws, ie Coles TD against. That throw was thrown where it was by design- I've seen it before. That is why I chose the KC game among those that you listed. When he wasn't throwing the 1 up for grabs vs KC, his percentage rate was high and 2 TDs. Believe me, I get nevous when he is over 35 ATTs - combination he is not what he was 10-12 yrs ago (who is) and honestly the game (defenses) has changed.

Yes he has got to stay away from "bad streak" and utilize his other skills and resources, especially against the upcoming AFC opponents. To get AFC 2 seed (aim high sort it out later) Jets can ill afford to lose to an AFC opponent and must hope for losses by Indianapolis and Pittsburgh (3 losses). NFC loss "acceptable". At this stage of development, the OL is better suited for run blocking and slants and other quick dink & dunk than straight 7 step drop protection, I believe they can run well against Denver & Buffalo; Miami - not sure.

 

I agree w/ you alot of it had to do w/ learning a new system and learning new talent around him. I do think our WRs are better than they have shown this year, I think both have been limited b/c of injuries and just as Brett needs to learn their tendencies they need to learn Brett's. I still see some miscommunication at times even though the O is playing great football. That doesn't happen overnight. I think Brett has done a great job adjusting and I expect he will continue to get better.

 

BIGGS ORIGINAL POST:

So what! Crappy QB's who play badly win games against bad teams all the time. We didn't get Favre to win those games. Agreed he may have caused us the Oakland game but it really was a team effort on many levels. We got Favre to win the kind of games we have won the last 3 weeks against good opponents on the road. We got Favre to make plays that we couldn't make against quality opponents. We got Favre because we may not be front running in games against quality opponents in the playoffs and may need a drive in crunch time when the wind is blowing and the QB is getting banged around and can't set his feet perfectly. This are the things you discount which is what seperates the mediocre from the top players in the NFL.

According to his criteria? His criteria was that Favre was supposed to come here and win big games on the road... That is clearly what he did against BUF, NE, and TEN. His criteria does nothing but support his claim that Favre has been an upgrade. How have "all the things Biggs said" not come true? He has lead a 4th qtr comeback, he has won big games, he has won on the road, he has made some incredibly clutch throws that not a lot of other QB's can make. Sounds like EVERYTHING he said is valid...

 

Confession: it has been a pleasant surprise and relief that the Jets are as good as they are. Please chalk this up to ignorance of what went on here in the offseason, but I know I speak for more than one Favre carpetbagger when I say that we came to this place semi-resigned to seeing bad football; it took me most of August to figure out that this team even had a shot at the playoffs. I definitely did not "hitch up" because I expected to be riding any kind of bandwagon!

I think (and hope) this has been a pleasant surprise for both sides of the Favre trade. When the trade happened:

• most Jets fans not that familiar with Favre might've expected to get, at best, some uncommitted, washed-up diva who occassionally makes spectacular plays, and just as often horrible ones, given how he was portrayed in the media, and
• most Favre loyalists, not familiar with the Jets off-season moves & just seeing last year's records, and also listenign to the same media that was bashing Favre, might've expected to be watching some mediocre-at-the-very-best football.

Hopefully both sides on this board brought together by this trade* have been pleasantly surprised at what they really got. And hopefully we share at least one common opinion: the media were morons given their preseason evaluation of both the Jets and Favre :beer:

Footnote
* with a few exceptions, as we all know & hear from all the time

 

He was talking about Qbs who beat bad teams, he also mentioned favre doesn't front run and that we got him to bring us back but the only game he brought us from behind late in was KC and KC stinks.

I'm not arguing whether he has played well b/c he has been playing very well, I am arguing Winston's point b/c what he was talking about is not what Favre has given us(don't confuse that w/ bashing favre b/c I am not as I am very satisfied w/ where he has us).

 

There is a difference between front running which every QB wants to do and having the ability to bring your club back when your down by 1 or 2 scores in the 4th quarter.

You always want to front run but situations don't always dictate that particularly against good teams.

 

He brought us back late against KC. Ok, we know this.

What about Oakland? Last a checked, favre ochestrated the final drive in regulation to even get the jets INTO OT. I believe that counts, no? Plus, favre made what looked like an absolute beauty of a pass in OT to baker when baker fell down, that even if he couldn't turn it into a TD, would sealed the game in OT. Sure, maybe #4 didn't have his best most of that game, but in crunch time, he made the necessary throws to win the game, and other things around him just didn't happen.


In Fact: Looking back, in crunch time this season in tight ball games, Favre has pretty much been money. He's made all the throws he's needed too, took risky throws and made them work for him (like he has done most of his career), and produce wins in those situations in all but 2 games.

1. Oak. Made the throws needed to win, but the offense around him (especially in OT) fell apart. Combine that with horrible play calling in OT (they virtually took the ball out of #4's hands) and you can see why the jets couldn't pull it out.

2. NE. Who knows, let brett throw it on one of those runs inside the 5, and you could be looking at 7 points on the board, a whole new ball game, and #4 with the ball in his hands, just under 2 minutes to go, chance to win. Due to horrible play calling again, he never got that chance.


So, in the two "tight" losses, the game, due to play calling, was taken out of his hands.

Since those two games? When the game is tight, they have almost exclusively given hte ball to Favre to win the game, and he has come through.

 

Explain to me when he brought us back from 1 or 2 scores down in the 4th? I just want to know what games I missed?

Oak counts but we lost the game, he had 3 possessions in OT and led us to 13 pts in 5 qtrs against an awful Raider team. He was talking about coming back which we really haven't and beating good teams when his mini-comebacks have been against bad teams.

I am perfectly happy w/ his play in big spots this year. That isn't the point but if someone is going to say he was brought here to come back from 1-2 scores down and do it against good teams then shouldn't he at least do that before he applauds?

As far as Oak and the 1st NE game. Of course we'll blame it on playcalling but why wasn't playcalling an issue against Ari? It was execution not playcalling. There was more to that NE game than that failed drive at the GL. He had 5 qtrs to score on oak and he only led us to 13 pts. In 9 qtrs against Oak and NE(at home) he led us to 22 pts total. Thats not good.

 

What I've seen from Favre the past 4 weeks is what I wanted in ANY quarterback for the past 10 years. He's so instinctive in crunch time.

Someone earlier bashed the throw he made to Coles to put us at 20 against the Titans. I've watched that play a dozen times since and I love it. Yes, he threw into triple coverage. Based on that alone, people are saying it was a bad decision. What they don't mention is that he looked off of 2 receivers and froze the safeties on both sides while the guy that was in man-coverage on Coles was getting burnt. He was confident in his velocity and accuracy to squeeze it through those defenders because he had them OWNED. They didn't even move toward the ball until it was in LC's hands.

Favre's fakes are amazing. He's not as deceptive as Chad's play fakes, but Chad had to be perfect in his play fakes because he lacked ball speed and he had to be perfectly set to get the ball to the right spot on time. Brett's fakes are about speed and taking advantage of the defense's instincts rather than visual deception. Another play to think about is the pass to Coles in the first Jets drive against Tenn where he made a quick fake and threw a frozen rope in a very awkward position over the back's head. He's clutch when he has sync in a drive.

Favre has thrown fast, accurate balls while in mid-air, while his legs were crossed, at times across his body, at times falling backwards. I will take that any day of the week over a veteran QB of 8 years who talks about re-vamping his throwing motion every offseason due to injuries and such. I appreciate Brett Favre. And I love watching him play.

I won't even get into the effect he has on his teammates outside the whistles. Because someone will argue against it with meaningless stats.

 

Great post, Abyzmul, I loved watching that Coles TD too, it was so Favre.

Over the years, watching him do that time, and time again, here is how it goes. Me;

"HOW the living hell did he do that, can't believe it, totally sick." (TD) Or,

"WHY the living hell did he do that, can't believe it., totally sucks " (interception)

Hope for Jet fan sake, it's a lot more of the HOW, than the WHY going forward. :up:

 

I still 100% agree that Winston's post was spot on. Please read it again:

Winston: So what! Crappy QB's who play badly win games against bad teams all the time. We didn't get Favre to win those games. Agreed he may have caused us the Oakland game but it really was a team effort on many levels. 1)We got Favre to win the kind of games we have won the last 3 weeks against good opponents on the road. 2)We got Favre to make plays that we couldn't make against quality opponents. 3)We got Favre because we may not be front running in games against quality opponents in the playoffs and may need a drive in crunch time when the wind is blowing and the QB is getting banged around and can't set his feet perfectly. This are the things you discount which is what seperates the mediocre from the top players in the NFL.

1) Wins @BUF, @NE, @TEN ===== CHECK.
2) Some amazing clutch drives these last 3 weeks ==== CHECK.
3) He clearly says MAY NEED HIM. So this is clearly not his MAIN point, yet you discredited his entire post simply because Favre has only come back against the Chiefs? You responded saying that you were simply responding based on his logic. You clearly only chose a very small portion of his logic and one that is clearly not the biggest since he said "may need". He even says "playoffs". So there is nothing wrong with this post at all... This is why its so annoying because you clearly either misunderstood what he wrote, did not read it thoroughly or whatever, and you won't admit that you are just nitpicking and still wrong

 

I used to think that. I didn't know - none of us did - that Penny actually had gotten stronger and is playing more like his pre-surgery years then what he brought the last two seasons. Maybe benching him last season and giving him extra time to heal really was a good thing for his career. But nobody knew this. We did what we thought was right.

Botton line - Penny has been out playing Favre nearly every week this season. We were wrong about him. Truth is, I would have more faith in our playoff run with Penny then I do with Favre.

And what kinda bugs me. Even in the euphoria of us leading the devsion is this:

We released a genuine cool guy for a pretend cool guy. It just feels like bad mojo.

 

A) Penny was released with class on the Jets part (unlike how Brett was released) So I wouldn't be worried about bad mojo.

B) "Pretend cool guy" please "Just say no to drugs before you post" :rofl:

 

There are a Chad Contingent on this board that really believe that Chad can do what Farve can. I thought they were joking a few years ago but they really believe that he is a top 10-15 Qb in the Nfl.

 

what's with the stupid avatar?

 

Wow. Finally the Jets have a player we can be proud of with HOF credentials and some poster is worried about bandwagon fans. Worry about yourself. With any team that wins, comes these morons.