Disclaimer: This is not a "Gholston is a bust" thread. Im sure I am not alone when I say that I have so far been pretty disappointed with Gholston's play (or lack thereof) this season so far. Yes, he is learning a new position. Yes, he is being brought along slow. But... he was the #6 pick! Usually, you expect a pick that high, to be able to come in and contribute at least somehow in his rookie season. The season is young, and there is still a lot of time left, but from what I have seen so far, I am thoroughly NOT impressed at all. Pass Rush - This is what is supposed to be his bread and butter, getting to the quarterback. This has nothing to do with positional development, but has everything to do with drive and tenacity. I think we can all agree he is a talented athlete, but what has been missing is any semblance of fire.. or sense of urgency. I noticed this right away through his interviews.. he was just very calm.. almost too calm. Sure, there are guys that are epitome of composure on the outside, but are tenacious on the inside and show it. But in this case, it seems that a lot of that calmness is being carried over to the field. Someone please make him angry.. find a way to put some aggressiveness into his play. I don't think we are asking him to do much.. bring him in on 3rd downs and other passing situations where he has one job. He has not shown me that he is capable of doing this job at all. Is it confidence? Maybe.. perhaps he just needs to get that first sack and it will fire him up and give him that boost. What do you guys think it is? Tackling and shedding blocks - Can we see at least a little bit of technique here? I mean c'mon.. weak arm tackles and poor positioning along with taking bad angles.. you would think he had a bit more football sense than that coming from OSU and being a top pick. He's supposed to be this physical specimen.. Why does it look like he is completely overmatched? Please, i beg of you, prove me wrong on this one, because fundamentally, I think he's got a LONG way to go in becoming a good defensive player in general, let along a starting outside linebacker. Again, this isn't a "Gholston is bust" thread. I have faith in our coaching staff that they can develop him into a very good player, but I just expected him to be a bit more prepared coming in. And the way things are going, it might take a lot longer for him to become that player than we all originally anticipated. Now - Onto the thread title.. if Gholston can start showing some flashes towards the middle of this season.. start looking like he's playing with a chip on his shoulder, he could have a HUGE impact on this team as the season goes on and we try to make a playoff push. I at least want to see some aggressiveness.. the rest will come... sooner or later.
Gholston does bother me for many of the reasons you listed. I see a lack of fire that mirrors the lack of fire I've seen in the past from Brick. Ferguson is a very talented guy and he is progressing well this year, but when you have guys in the trenches, you want them to be mean. Maybe not Romanowski mean, but enough to make the guy on the other side of the line really not like them. Hate them, even. So far Gholston has displayed the demeanor of a student approaching a training seminar, rather than a big animal that needs to be whipped into military form and used as a weapon against the enemy. I've seen statistical comparisons with Merriman, but I remember Merriman to be a very angry and aggressive young player. I don't see that from VG, and that bothers me. Hopefully I'm wrong in what I think I've seen.
I think he's a physical specimen who is more of a project than a football player, just like D'Brick was. It took Brick 3 years to master his position, gain the mental toughness, and is looking like a great LT this year, rather than the average years he put up while he was learning. Gholston is a 4-3 DE turning into a 3-4 OLB, just like our beloved BT and Pace were at one point in their careers. Now it sucks that he was chosen so high, but if he becomes anything like the two mentioned, then he'll be one hell of a player. Lawrence Timmons of PIT is in a similar mold. He had 13 total tackles in his rookie season, and got his 1st sack this season. Gholston might be the same way, because of his transition and his spot on the depth chart. I'd just like to see him be taught a move or two by anyone. He continues to use strength over technique and its not helping. Can another player teach him one move that'll get him at least a QB pressure. I will not give up on him until after his 3rd season. So my final judgment is September of 2011.
Coaches and scouts and GMs seem to agree that 3 years is a good time to decide that a player isn't what they wanted, or decide that pick was justified - contract lengths prove this. That outlook doesn't keep them from evaluating the player at every stage of their career. To call Gholston a bust at this point is not objective or realistic. To be disappointed in his current stage of progress is not unrealistic or even unreasonable.
HOW can you compare brick to gholston? brick was a starte from the start and played pretty well through his first 2 years. last year he was also good and this year he has become VERY good. so we are comparing a guy who came in and started right away, even though his body wasnt ready yet, remember how skinny brick was his first year? and still did a pretty damn good job. vs. a guy who really hasnt sniffed too much field going into week 5, and is nowhere close to starting anything. i still have hope for gholston, not very much for this year. but its ok as pace and thomas are playing very well. but to compare him to brick is silly.
I think they are both very comparable, in a couple of different fashions. Brick and Gholston were both considered high prospects while also being considered halfway qualified for the position they were taken so high to fulfill. Both were drafted to be trench-players. The ones who directly affected the protection of the quarterback, and also the success of the running game. Brick was considered an elite college pass-protector who needed work on his technique his run-blocking. Drafted 4th overall. He lacked a mean streak in his rookie year and was given a pass due to learning his specialty (pass-ruching) at the pro speed. He was given a huge learning curve in the run-blocking and is still provided with a learning gap in the running game by many fans. We even picked up another pull-blocker to replace Kendall to mask his deficiencies. I like his progress, but I have given up hope that he will ever become an intimidatingly aggressive run-blocker. Gholston was considered and elite college pass-rusher who needed work on technique and needed to learn a position that involved pass-protection at a moment's glance and rushing from the stand-up. Drafted 6th overall. He had dropped into coverage and worn numerous hats in the Ohio ST. defense, but nothing like he would be asked to do with the Jets. He came to us as a low-key character guy just like Brick, and his approach to the game thus far is not that unlike Brick's, nor the expectations of him thus far. No exhibited mean streak. Nothing to tell us that he is going to be a gamebreaker when the ball is snapped. He may not be a bust, but if he lives up to his draft position as the elite player we expect him to be, in the mold of a Revis or Harris or Mangold, he is going to show it early. They always do when they are elite and they get draft attention that early. Otherwise he will be a guy that develops slowly, if at all, and justifies a mid-first early-second like D'Brickashaw Ferguson has so far justified.
A Mario Williams or DeMarcus Ware also needed time. I think i remember both beeing critizised a lot early in their carrer and not looking like the Elite Players, they were about to become. Gholston looks limited by his head. I don´t know if it´s the new postion, him not 100% knowing/understanding the playbook, him too much focusing on playing the right tequniqe or just too much respect for the opponent. One big Play could help him get on track.
and don't forget that picking at 6 kind of sucked. the 'good' players (those without red flags) were gone, leaving vg and everyone else. lowery and keller picks seem brilliant so besides db and big receiver, who would you rather have taken at 6? i think ne would have taken vg if we didnt, so he can sit on the bench with us or he can play against us 2 games a year for the next 10 yrs. addition by subtraction?
good post abyz, they definitely do have those similarities, the thing i got stuck on was bricks playing time vs. gholstons and how he had to learn with everyone watching him every time he made any kind of mistake. we differ a bit in our opinions of brick, i think he has been great the past 2 years and was pretty damn good his second year. although i will agree he is not and probably never will be an intimidator. hopefully gholston can get some things going and make a difference at some point, luckily we have 2 guys right now at OLB that are playing very well and gholston really doesnt need to make much of an impact.
Gholston...learn, learn, learn, and start making an impact next year. As long as Thomas is holding down the fort...
I think the CS is playing it smart with Gholston right now. The guys in front of him a playing really well, limit his plays, let him make an impact on STs, get his confidence up & let him learn and hopefully he is ready to contribute some on D the second half of the season.
I probably would have taken Gholston anyway for his pass-rushing ability, but it doesn't change the fact that I think he should have shown more by now just in a limited role. I'm not a scout and didn't really do a hell of a lot of research about the draft pool this year,, plus I don't have the resources to look at all of his college games... but who I personally think we could've/should've draft is irrelevant. I'm not going to play that game like a lot of draftniks do. We drafted Gholston at 6 and I'd like to see immediate production out of him in some areas, and he isn't getting it. Will he ever? I think so, and I'll be happy when it happens. I'm just not seeing it right now.
While I subscribe to the "judge a pick after 3 years" philosophy, I can tell you unequivocally that I don't like what I see out of this guy. He is totally lost out there. I was against this pick from the beginning, mostly because he shot up the boards at teh combine, and I have no faith in players that have their stock rise because of workout numbers. I don't want athletes, I want football players. Every time this team drafts a workout warrior it fails to work. In fact, make that any team. Athletic ability != good football skills.
That's the thing though, he didn't shoot up the boards at the combine. He was a top 10 pick before the combine. And the man did set the Ohio State single season sack record. If he was just an average player in college, fine, but Gholston is one of the best pass rushers in the history of one of the most storied programs in college football. That has to count for something in terms of football skills.
I wanted McFadden but I think it's too early to judge Gholston. The defense has a lot of playmakers this year and he's getting lost in the shuffle. He was the BPA at #6 and in a year or so should develop into a monster for the pass rush. Give him some time and have faith.
