Being the backup QB doesn't mean anything. It means just that, you're the guy backing up the starting QB that no one *ever* wants to see. So, what is the issue with him not being the backup? Does he know the system better than Clemens? Does he even have any *idea* of just how fast a starting NFL D plays on Sundays? Does he have *any* real reason to be the number 2 QB beyond looking good for less than 4 quarters (as in one game) worth of preseason snaps? Like...if you like him *that* much, let him develop. Looking good against 2nd at best stringers during the preseason doesn't mean shit. Logically, would you want that kind of undeveloped talent as a legit backup? It's not like he's a first round pick here waiting to be the QB of the future. This is some kid with good physical tools who played with alot of moxie in his what...second preseason with the team? Plus, WTF do you do with Clemens? Assume he sucks, and try to dump him somewhere? How does that even make sense to any of you?
Of course it means something. It determines who plays the scout team QB in practice, who gets reps with the first string and who doesn't. Who is eligible for game time and who isn't.
Like...the kid has made a ton of progress from last year to this year. It's not a bad thing to have some young developing QB's on the roster when your starter is 38.
One more time.. A Backup Qb that makes plays and scores points vs. a Backup Qb that doesn't. Can't make it simpler than that...
Considering you have 1 out of every 3 posts blubbering about people liking Ratliff in the "locked up" thread, was it really necessary to start a whole new thread? And if it's not a big deal who the #2 is anyway, why do you care so much who people want to be that guy? Sounds like someone just wants to argue.
He's a developing young qb that has shown a lot of promise not just in the games but in training camp as well. He looks like he's got all the tools. What's the problem?
Looks like you're not liking the way he likes to rite like in like every sentence...like?...i mean rite?
Clemens has fallen on his ass, missed reads, overthrown passes, and generally made terrible decisions this preseason... against second and third stringers. This was the preseason where he was supposed to win the starting job from Chad Pennington, and he couldn't get the job done. The situation currently is unique for the quarterbacks because having Favre here has forced the offense to water down the playbook and change the verbage of a lot of the plays. This also presents a unique opportunity for all of the quarterbacks to have a rather level playing field when it comes to getting an opportunity to shine. While Clemens was falling on his ass, Ratliff was gracefully leading the offense, scoring multiple times and moving the ball down the field almost effortlessly... with the same exact personnel that Clemens had to work with. If Clemens has a confidence issue then he is not the quarterback of the future. Just watching the guy you can tell he doesn't have "it". He's blown just about every opportunity he's ever had. It is too early to judge Ratliff... this preseason was just stage 1 of the process by which he will be judged, and he leaves it with an A+. This doesn't mean we'd be safe with him as a backup, but at this point if I had to choose who I'd feel more comfortable with leading the offense, it has to be Ratliff without question.
Exactly. What do you do with them? You keep them both on the roster for the year. Clemens is for now the #2 that is ready to go in in a pinch, like Patrick Ramsey was a couple years ago when Clemens was too green to throw into a live game. Ratliff has shown enough that you have to keep him and continue working with him, because as BB said, our starter is 38 and we'll need a QB within the next two years. What's the downside of keeping him?
That doesn't make sense...Pennington isn't with us...and we got Brett friggin Favre for like...nothing. It says something about Clemens, but it doesn't say "bust." It's not exactly like we went and got a star QB in their prime. It's a nice play on words...but be realistic...Clemens at least saw a few startrers...and he's actually made plays in an actual game...Ratliff is a guy shining in his second preseason against 2nd stringers *at best.* Uh huh...the magical "it" factor...I'm sorry but thats not much of an explanation to me and I've always been to question exactly wtf the all powerful "it" factor is...cause it only seems to appear when the young QB is winning...his team is winning....cause football is a team sport...remember? I And that decision is wholly based off of a preseason in which he *maybe* got a whole games worth of snaps...all against second, third, and fourth stringers trying to make their team...it'll never make sense to me but whatever floats you guys' boat...coaching staff seems to agree that it makes no sense to make him #2...but I do realize fans emotions and "gut feelings" usually are more correct.
BTW: I haven't judged Ratliff at all guys...I just think it makes no sense to have him back up when the guy QB'ing your team is 38 years old...kickass warrior or not.
I can understand why you wouldn't want him as the #2 QB, but you can't deny that Ratliff had an outstanding preseason. Two times this preseason Clemens struggled to get anything going on offense, Ratliff came in and immediately on the first drive threw a TD pass (week 1 & 4). Now, unless the opposing coach saw Ratliff trot onto the field and changed his entire defense, Ratliff was facing the same defensive players that Clemens was just struggling mightily against. Ratliff made it look like taking candy from a baby while Clemens made it look like doing advanced calculus against the same defense. Ratty got the majority of the snaps weeks 1 & 2 along with a decent amount of time week 3. I think it's safe to say that he played more than a combined game all preseason. That's neither here nor there though, and your point is taken that we haven't seen much of him. Ratliff has displayed the accuracy, pocket presence, patience and moxie of a seasoned veteran this preseason. He has looked better than anything I've ever seen from Clemens. But, he hasn't played against starters yet and he hasn't done it over any prolonged period of time. Clemens has started half a season in the NFL so he is the safer guy to have as the #2. As a fan I would prefer to see Ratliff as the #2, but I understand the reasoning behind leaving Clemens there. If Ratliff continues to impress next preseason he probably has a good shot at beating out Clemens.
Clemens: 2nd round draft pick, never on the Practice Squad, touted as the "heir apparent." Learned the offense. 1st preseason, showed enthusiasm and strong arm. Accuracy and poise were to come... 2nd preseason, looked better - hopes improving. 1st start - Embarrassing except for final quarter, looks clutch in pressure situations. High hopes for the kid. After 7 starts - Poise a big problem, universal agreement on bad footwork, but looks good in 4th quarters. Can it be a whole game. This preseason - Against the same competition, looks as if progress has stalled. Bad habits not removed in his 3rd season, the "make or break year," doubts set in, sighs heard all over. Nothing got better. Brett Ratliff: 1st OTAs - "Wait, whats the call again? 34-Right-XZ-Jet What?" 1st preseason - Watching. 1st Season - Practice Squad... All year long. 2nd Preseason - Now knows offense as well as other QBs, better than Favre [/sarcasm] Earns 1st team reps with impressing the Coaching Staff, doesn't disappoint. Earns playing time in Pre-Season games - Shows poise, pocket presence, footwork, and awareness that doesn't usually hit until your 3rd year in the league. Played against the #2s, the Same level of competition. Conclusion: In one preseason, Ratliffs QB skills alone - his own skills and brain standing in that pocket, have looked better than Clemens. It's not the stats, its a 2nd year player making it look too easy. He looks like a 3rd round pick coming into his own in his 3rd year. Clemens looks like 2007. I have not seen a better version of Clemens against the same competition. Wouldn't the guy who has played against top defenses in the NFL look better against second team defenses in the fuckin preseason? We are being too nice to Kellen. He needs to further his progression, or else he has hit his ceiling. He has 2 more years to get better, or else the contract expires and he either is a FA or is re-signed to a lesser deal. Should he be #2?? Well, I put Clemens in if Favre can't play 1, maybe two games. If Favre gets hurt in week 2, and he's out all year forcing him to retire... Whats the other Brett got?
If he played less than a game in pre-season than it is even more remarkable as he threw for over 500 yards and 4 TDs in that time whatever it may have been.
ND and others...I agree that Clemens needs to start showing some progress...but I can't agree that if Favre went down week 2 I'd be calling for Ratliff. Hell no, actually. If Favre were to go down at all, this would pretty much be Clemens' last shot to show something. I don't see any real point in attacking him until he blows chunks with the first team in a real game... Ratliff, right now, is a guy whose had great success in some seriously non-pressure situations. Clemens was a guy who got booed anytime someone dropped one of his passes. Theres a difference, and I just can't weigh this preseason as heavily as you guys seem to be. It means nothing really...I don't even think we disagree really...I just don't see the logic in making him the #2 already.
Most of what the majority of you guys are saying is true. Ratliff has clearly outplayed Clemens against the same level opponents. IMO he has won the back up job. With that said, it really doesn't make much sense to promote him over Clemens. At least on paper. If Favre goes down,(Lord I hope not) and misses a start, regardless what the depth chart says, it is possible Ratliff could get the start. As it stands right now Ratliff has been rewarded by making the team, and being considered for the # 2 spot. Most of us have to admit that when Ainge was drafted the odds of Ratliff making the team, or even being in the NFL this year were very slim. The kid has shined, and I'm sure very happy to be # 3. Clemens on the other hand was a second round pick with high expectations. He has regressed. Doesn't mean he is done. I think what happened to him is the severe down side to putting a QB in as starter before he is ready, on a team with a bad OL. He seems to have developed very bad habits. He also seems to have lost confidence. If you demote him to # 3, might as well release him, he is done. I think Mangini wants to see him one more camp before that decision is made. He might recover, and make a fight out of the starting competition next year if Favre leaves, which I think he will. In the end, even though Ratliff beat him out it is best to leave it the way it is. Every one is happy for the moment
^Right, but I'm actually going to have to agree with Don Banks' assessment. You put in Clemens if Favre goes down early, but if he is embarrassing himself - you go to Ratliff for the last few games of the season as a test of his abilities. Ratliff is like a 2.5 more than a #3 right now. The funny thing is in 06 Mangini went with the whole "No one has tenure, if you're better than the guy in front of you, you'll play." In 07 he didn't do that. I wonder if he'll do it this year.
