Did you get this from the official site? Everywhere I have read has stated the 4th was conditional. This is the first I have read what you are saying anywhere.
The AND part is what's bothering me. It sounds like he has to sign the extension in order for us to get anything in 09. If he has a very good year odds are he will test FA. if they franchise him I suspect that might void the deal. At any rate if the Saints don't get him signed, it sounds like they are the ones getting the shaft. Giving up draft picks to rent a guy for one year? it is very confusing, and we probably won't find out for sure until next years draft.
Remember we had 2 - 4th rounders going into the draft this year. The FO used one to trade up into the bottom half of the first to get Keller. That was ours to keep no matter what. The conditional part comes in 2009. If incentives are met and Vilma extends, the Saints get our 4th rounder and the Jets receive their 2nd/3rd rounder (now I am assuming it is the 3rd, the 2nd rounder was probabley just speculation from the media).
If we get a pick next year, the Saints get our 4th. The Saints look loaded, so all we get for Vilma is probably a late 3rd. If so, I would have keept him around. Tanny better not did that.
Ugh...No, like I said we already received a pick. But there is a possibility to upgrade a pick next year. So we got a 4th (2008) and possibly upgrade a 4th to a 2nd/3rd (2009). It was a good trade no matter what.
I was under the impression we did not receive a 3rd/2nd AND a 4th for Vilma. I thought we give the Saints our 4th in 2009 if we get a 3rd/2nd in return, meaning we get a 4th (in 2008) OR a 3rd/2nd (in 2009) for Vilma. So I think Miami got more for Taylor and the Giants got more for Shockey (as I think each team got both picks). Of course, I may be mistaken about all of that - I'm not sure.
I doubt very much that Tanny would enter into an agreement (or that the NFL ratifies an agreement) that states that we conditionally get the Saints' 2nd Rounder IF IT IS STILL AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME. Hell, that opens the doors to all kinds of shenanigans. Either the Saints have TWO 2nd Round picks or there's a logical answer to all this, because should Vilma meet all the requirements with the Saints, the NY Jets are still entitled to a 2nd Round pick from them. I don't care if they have to trade their 1st Rounder to get it, we should be receiving one in the 2nd Round, no?
By the way, I'm SOOO glad we didn't reach out for Shockey. Keller will do just fine and we don't need the helmet-throwing, penalty-inducing bullshit.
You could also say we give them their 4th back and everythin left is a pick probably in the 80-90 range for Vilma, imo, that sucks!
In my mind, that constitutes a conditional 4th round pick, although not by orthodox means. I know we used the 4th we got from NO (which they got from GB) to draft Lowery, but the idea of trading a 4th next year for a pick depending on Vilma's performance... well, that stipulation stinks if it is true, with this Shockey trade happening.
I still like the trade. A 4th this year and the possibility of upgrading a pick next year for a LBer coming off major knee surgery who didn't fit the system sounds good to me.
If Vilma's knee keeps him from being what he is capable of then the trade is in the Jets favor completely. I hope that Vilma has a good career but if the knee doesn't hold up then whatever the Jets received is plenty.
I'm not saying I don't like the trade as it is at the moment, if the stipulation about upgrading the pick is true, I'd just like to know the actual details and not a bunch of irresponsible reporting from various media sources concerning those details.
I know we have a 4th no matter what in the 08 draft. Its the 09 pick that I know is a 2nd/3rd depending on Vilma's knees and the checklist of things he has to accomplish with them this year. That's all I know.
You woulda kept Vilma despite the knee injuries and lack of success within the system? Really? It's not like a 3rd round pick is worthless...far from it really...
The Shockey trade is 'pending league approval', so it is possible that the NFL could disallow the Giants trade if that 2nd rounder could potentially belong to the Jets, in my opinion.
This makes sense to me. The Jets were there first and could POTENTIALLY, under certain circumstances, own this pick (if it's the only 2nd Rounder the Saints have). Why, then, should the Saints be allowed to trade away this pick before knowing if they have to give it to the Jets?
That seems to make sense to me.... I don't know if you can trade away a pick that could be a conditional pick. What would be the purpose of there being a conditional clause?
