Jets PSL detail is August

I've been pounding the table on this from the start. The taxpayors of NJ also need a complete accounting of why our tax dollars are funding all the improvements and access to a site that was sold to then acting Governor Cody as a "shared stadium" and billed as a way to reduce costs for the benefit of the ticket-consuming public. Nowhere did the proposal include that the ticket prices would be increased so dramatically and that heavy PSLs would be levied. I fell the public has been duped and that current ticketholders are getting reamed without vaseline even. There is no doubt that the increases will be passed on to each and every Giants-Jets fan who wants to ever go to a live game.

On Friday, I headed for the shore and was lucky enough to hear a live, complete interview of John Mara by Chris Carton. And he did a pretty good job of questioning Mara on all this. Mare kept on referring to construction costs being 1.6 Billion. Carton of course reminded him that its really 800 Million to each team, but Mara kept on arogantly referring to it as the 1.6 Billion. Afterward, even Carton himself was asking rhetorically, "How do you go from estimates of $800 Million to TWICE that? Don't people lose jobs over such things... being that far off on costs?

The other interesting thing with the Mara interview was, the guy said several times that the stadium won't be THAT much better... it will be something the fans will love and be proud of, but the upgrades arene't THAT spectacular... but we think they'll like them." Well... what doubletalk. So Carton was saying, "For 1.6 Billion, why ISN'T it an over-the-top stadium? What's Mara saying?" He wound up after the interview saying, "I thing the shole thing STINKS and the fans and ticketholders have every right to be POed."

A Jets fan called in and asked Carton what the possibiltiy was of the Jets not taking the same road and defying Mara by not charging the heavy hits like the Giants are doing. Carton said, "Well, it's going to boil down to, do the Jets want to be NICE or do the Jets want to be MAKE MONEY." He said there's no question in his mind the Jets will follow.

But the question still came up, "Well, okay, if we help pay off the new stadium in such a short time, what's in it for us?" And Carton said, "Well, you can sell our PSLs," but who the hell knows if they will "appreciate" form the current nose-bleed levels at which they are now? He concluded that it is unfair of the Gians to basically get their fans to help them pay off the stadium in such a record chort time and that after taht is done, the Giants will be literally "printing money." That's just fucking beautiful.

Class-Action suit baby... somebody needs to bring it on. Even if it fails and gets thrown out of court, it's at least an attempt to get the numbers out in the open. There's no Vaseline being used here fellas.

 

If that is the case I would dump my tix in a heartbeart. There is no sound reason the Jets could do that. The Giants have a much larger waitlist and they got a huge break by coming off a SB win.

 

Psl Bs

Why is it that the New stadium will not open for almost 2 Years, but the Giant fans, and I'm sure soon to be Jets fans, have to lay out 20% of the cost of the PSL within 30 days of you receiving your offer????

 

Let me get this straight:

the stadium really is not that much better -- and the jets/giants could have spent 400 million total upgrading the present stadium? Why the new stadium at all? Because they figured it was free -- the psl's will defer most of the cost -- along with the new luxury seats it was a no brainer -- because it was free. The fans though get nothing? And he admitted to all this.

 

well hey at least we wont have to worry about all those giants fans that cant get tickets to the giants games cause they are on the waitlist staying with jets season tickets... oh but wait that raises the likelihood that the stadium will not be full on a weekly basis...

from this point forward if it says nfl on it i refuse to buy it no matter what it is. i will watch the games but will not give anyone in the nfl a single penny of my money again.

 

You are correct.

The new stadium will not be that much better and Mara admitted that. But on the other hand he claims the "experience" will be better and something the ticketholders will love. His interview was filled with this kind of doubletalk and ambiguous, nonsensical drivel.

When asked about the ticketholders, he was given specific instances where some guy had tickets in his family for 40 years and now will have to give up his seats, Mara gave some politically correct garbage about, "Well, we certainly hope we don't lose any fans. I think when the fans get to experience the new stadium, they will like it. And there is the opportunity to go upstairs." (Yeah, up in the nosebleed sections). He kept turning every point about sticking it to the ticketholders into what he thought was his positive spin, which to the listener was simplistic, complete bullshit.

I suspect that the stadium cost overruns (100% over the projected budget from only two years ago) is the result of them going over the top with fancy "food courts" and elaborate kitchens to support all that gourmet bullshit. In essence, what they're building is a huge catering hall that happens to surround a football field. They figure the captive audience will have no choice but to fork over $15 for a "gourmet" Philly cheese steak. All those grilles and elaborate ventilation systems and so forth are expensive as hell to buy and install.

Okay, no problem. I have no problem with them investing huge dollars in elaborate kitchens, for example, because the return will be huge for them. BUT WHY SHOULD THE FANS AND TICKETHOLDERS HAVE TO MAKE THAT INVESTMENT FOR THEM? And pay it all off in 5 years, no less.

This is one huge bear trap for ticketholders. The paying of the PSLs is only the beginning of the nightmare, because once on the hook, you leave yourself wide open to more sodomy. Consider shelling out $80,000 ($20,000 X 4) for teh PSLs and then your ticket prices escalate from $120 per seat to $750. That's right, $750. Now you're ON THE HOOK but good for $3,000 per game ($750 X 4). What's that you say? You can't afford $3,000 for a game? Well, here's your bill for next year's tickets, andguess what, they're now $800 per seat. Can't pay that? Well, you'd better, or you lose your $80,000 "investment." This isn't the end of the beartrap you're in, however, because there's escalating parking fees and escalating expensive cheese steak prices. Don't dare try to sneak a sandwich into the new stadium either.

"Well, all is not lost," you tell yourself, "I'll just get myself off this hook. Mr. Mara said that I can always turn around and sell my PSLs to someone else, perhaps even at a profit." So you put your tickets on eBay and try to get someone else to get on the hook for you. They take a look at the raping going on and decide to offer you the true value of your PSLs, maybe 10 Grand for all four seats, take it or leave it.

This whole thing is one major screw-job.

 

I've been involved in projects that went 10-15% above budget that went into years of litigation, jobs lost, in some cases companies folded. 25% is outgrageous 100% defies belief. It will be interesting to see if any of the construction managers or architects/engineers get sued by the teams. That would be some majot double dipping

 

I think Mara has gotten himself into a hell of a jam. Either the facts are that it truly is 100% over budget or it's not. If it's 100% over budget, Mara now either looks like an idiot for buying into this (without demanding a strict accounting for the reasons) or he looks like a contemptuous liar and or exagerater for his own personal gain. He's a businessman and a good one by reputation. A good business planner doesn't vigorously question this? In fact, he doesn't express outrage? "You've put us in a hell of a position! What am I going to tell my ticketholders?"

No, he's calm as a cucumber and is not even blinking at the 100% overrun, which tells me something's really fishy. He shrugs his shoulders and passes it onto the ticketholders to the tune of huge PSLs. It's not outside the realm of possibility that many will think he's a liar, that the 100% bump is an excuse to gouge the fans.

If he won't publicly demand an explanation from his architects, planning engineers and accountants, there has to be a reason. This is why the public should insist on this and why the ticketholders need to unite and bring a class lawsuit against the NY Giants (perhaps the NY Jets), the Sports Authority, former Governor Richard Cody and the State of New Jersey.

If it accomplishes nothing else, we'll at least get a full accounting of why 800 Million was tossed around two years ago and now it's suddenly ballooned into twice that. Somebody has to do some "splainin'," Lucy.

 

A lot of great points in this post. I'm still on the fence whether I even want to bother trying to go for the worst seats in the house, for exactly the same reasons as listed above. What were once $75 tickets might be $175 next year.

 

I'm thinking the same thing. Even if the Jets were to match what the Giants are doing (and no more), I'm hesitant to get myself on the hook for even the worst seats in the house.

By shelling out $4,000, I could have 4 seats. But, like you say, that's not the end of it. The $75 seat now becomes $175, or even $300. If there's no limit to the outrageous way the Giants are porking their ticketholders, why should anyone assume those same seats won't become $300 a pop in five years? And who's going to stop them? Nobody, just like we can't stop them now. They can charge whatever TF they want to.

Parking has gone from $15 to $20. Do I hear $40? How about $75? You won't do jack-squat because, don't forget, we've still got your PSLs, so you better fork over your ticket money, which is due upon billing.

One 12-ounce glass of beer is $6.75. Chickenfeed! It should be $12. Why, by five years from now, we can get $18 for a beer. Who's going to stop us? We have a captive audience. By golly, this is a great "experience," isn't it?

"Oh wait... I forgot. They originally came here for some football, so I guess we'll have to have a football game going on the side while we run this outstanding catering hall. Man, five years now and the place is paid for, lock, stock and barrel."

PT Barnum was right! There IS a sucker born every minute!

 

I could only see that happening to that extreme if the NFL had reason to believe it was going to go under in a few years. Then again, as long as people pay the price, then what the hell do the Jets and Giants care? So long as they're turning a profit and people are paying then it doesn't matter to them who they kick out the door.

Honestly if all these scenarios really do pan out, I hope a lot more people join the bandwagon that alleycat9 has joined. Only if people stop buying their products will the NFL and the Jets/Giants be reasonable again.

If you want to buy tickets to a team that treats its fans well, become a Red Bulls fan.

 

NEW STADIUM VIEWS AND PSL FEE's FOR GMEN

Don't know if any of you have seen this site?? But it gives new views of the seats in the new Meadowlands, what the giants PSL's are per "zone", and what the season ticket prices of each ticket is in your respected "zone"...They really can answer pretty much every question you have on this site...and it seems odd that they want you to pay for your full PSL fee, then in march of 2010, they tell you where you're sitting. And they have the right to put you anywhere in that "zone." I'm just going to assume the Jets do the exact same thing...this is going to be ugly. I still don't know what happens when 9,300 people refuse to pay $20,000 per seat, and want to move to the upper deck for $1,000??? Does this mean 9,200 upper deck people will be out??

I'm unable to post the link, but its wwwnyg2010.com

 

GREAT post Rudd. Thanks for the link. I will try to go there and take a look.

And the part that I emboldened above are very good questions indeed. In fact, I might be one of those 9,300 people looking to move to the Upper Deck, and I have a lot of longevity. Wait until I scream bloody murder for a good seat. What, then, happens to people in the Uppers who have been intheir seats a long time?

The whole thing stinks. I'm sorry anyone ever suggested a new stadium.

 

NJ Assemblyman Proposes Ban On PSLs

This was buried in a Giants article this morning. Sorry for making you read through the Giants' whinings but I've highlighted the part that pertains to this thread:

http://www.nj.com/giants/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1216701339136640.xml&coll=1

Plaxico Burress is miffed, but he'll show up
Tuesday, July 22, 2008
BY MIKE GARAFOLO
Star-Ledger Staff
Michael Strahan has retired and Jeremy Shockey has been shipped to New Orleans. That makes two of three items checked off the Giants' list of potential training-camp headaches.

Actually, Plaxico Burress said they can scratch his name off there as well.

"I'm going to be at camp. I'm going to get out and practice," Burress, who had threatened to hold out if he didn't get a new contract, told The Star-Ledger yesterday. "I said that I may not have, but the smarter thing for me to do is to show up and show my teammates I'm ready to play football."

Still, if anyone thinks Burress will be a happy camper if he doesn't have a new contract by the time he and the rest of the players report to Albany on Thursday, he assured them he won't be.

"It shouldn't have gotten to this point. It just shows me as a person how important I really am to them," said the 30-year-old Burress, who has three years remaining on his contract. "This thing's a two-way street. It's not a one-way. ... It just opens your eyes a little bit to the people you're walking around with. You look them in the face and they smile at you."

When asked if he feels he's not as valued by the team as he initially thought, Burress said, "Evidently not. We've been trying to get this thing done and it doesn't seem like it's really important to them."

Still, he remains hopeful something will be done in the coming days.

"Well, that's what I'm being told," he said. "I don't do the numbers game. All I can do is wait."

A New Jersey lawmaker wants to stop New Jersey sports teams from charging fans for the right to buy tickets.

Assemblyman Anthony Chiappone (D-Hudson) said he'll propose legislation banning so-called personal seat licenses at New Jersey sports facilities.

His vow comes after the Giants announced they will charge up to $20,000 for the right to buy tickets, and more than 80 percent of season-ticket holders will be charged from $1,000 to $7,500 for the right to buy tickets at the new stadium, which will open in 2010.

"Sadly, the Giants management is literally putting a price tag on loyalty," said Chiappone, who said he is a lifelong Giants fan but not a season-ticket holder.

Fans who cannot afford the PSL attached to their current seats will be forced to either purchase seats elsewhere in the new stadium or give up their season tickets, he said.

Giants spokesman Pat Hanlon said the team had no immediate comment on Chiappone's proposal.

The Shockey trade was one of several transactions for the Giants yesterday. The team signed former Chargers RT Shane Olivea to a one-year contract after he passed a physical. Olivea was once considered one of the top young linemen in the league but fell out of favor in San Diego. He reportedly had a four-game drug suspension lifted recently.

The Giants also announced the signing of their second-round pick, CB Terrell Thomas. Terms of the deal were not immediately available. S Kenny Phillips (first round) is the only pick yet to sign. ... The team waived three offensive linemen (Brandon Torrey, Dylan Thiry and Andrew Bain) and signed former Raiders OL Jonathan Palmer.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

 

this is great, while it's probably jsut a cheap publicity stunt it would be great if more politicians got involved. Perhaps we could start contatcting our local assmembly members.

Here is a page that directs you to your assembly person, most of them have email addresses.

wwwwnjleg.state.nj.us/districts/municipalities.asp

 

This is great news...although I'm not quite sure how successful this assemblyman will be? Seems as if going up against the Meadowlands is no small feat? There are just way too many questions all of us have about this process. I gave the link yesterday that outlined every facet of the PSL's, and how the Giants will handle them. For you to pick 4 PSL zones, in order of preference...I don't know a soul who would "prefer" to pay $20,000 per seat? And no one in their right mind will pay $20,000 per seat, and $700 per ticket per game (which is the cost of Giants seats behind the Giants bench called the Coach's Club). So if everyone who gets a PSL letter responds with "choice #1, terrace 1 for $1000. #2 terrace 2 for $1000. #3 mezzanine for $4000. #4 loge for $5000...And I mean all 79,000 people do this...that will leave all the "club" seats empty, as well as Field level...So in theory we could have an empty bowl (well, maybe some firms will be able to shell out the corporate money, but given another bank today, Wachovia, has lost $9 BILLION dollars this quarter...I can't see it being that crowded). Now I realize that there are lots of people in the NYC area with LOADS of money...but typically (and I don't mean to offend anyone) we Jets fans are the blue collar team. The Giants fans have wine and cheese at their tailgates, we prefer beers, dogs, and steaks. Giants fans may want to support their team that has won 3 superbowls, while we have one JUST ONE in the past 39 years. So it's possible that the Giants may not have problems filling "their" seats, but I cannot see the Jets paying this kind of money. They had better have a good rescue plan, because if you get "removed" from your beloved upper deck seat because someone rightfully in the club level refuses to pay $20,000, WHERE DO THEY GO?? Are they then forced to a "take it or leave it" from the Jets? Either pay the person's $20,000 seat who took your spot, or you are out??? Luckily I'm in section 225, which looks like the least cost for any Mezzanine seat...But the range of the new Mezzanine "zone" goes from corner to corner in the end zone. I like my location, but I could be told in 2010, AFTER I've paid all of my money, that we're very sorry, but you're now in the last row of the Mezzanine, behind the goal posts. UGHHH. Sorry if this is repeating what's been said on this thread, but there is going to be no fair resoluting to this problem.

 

This is what I've been saying and it's going to a be a VERY real problem for the NY Giants. During the Mara interview, Carton asked Mara specifically, "What are you going to do if everyone wants to go to the Uppers at $1,000 because they can't afford the $20,000?" And Mara said again in his smug, simplistic, wishful-thinking way, "Well, we believe there are people in the Upper Decks who will want to come down and are willing to pay the $20,000." What? Are you on crack today, John?

I anticipate (and Carton said the same thing) that out of necessity, people will be fleeing the $20,000 PSLs (and the $10,000 and even the $5,000) like rats abandoning a ship and jump for the $1,000 PSLs.

Now, you raise a VERY good point. WTF are they going to do with all those guys who are in decent seats in the Uppers? It will be based on "tenure" and "where your current seats are," so many of these guys will be displaced. The results of that are going to be that a guy could be sitting in Row 4 in the Uppers, and then sign up for the $1,000 PSLs and later on in July of 2010 find out that he paid $1,000 for Row 47!

You talk about some pissed off people? This whole thing is a recipe for disaster because it sounds like, instead of "satisfying" ANYONE, you are pissing off EVERYONE!

 

lets say i pay this PSL for the 2010 season. but the ticket prices go to $125 a game.now i cant afford this for 2 seats let alone 4 seats , now what? i have to try and sell my psl? what if i cant sel the the psl and than dont pay for the season tickets? do i lose my PSL b/c the season tickets went unpaid for????

 

according to everything I've heard re the Giant PSL's, if you don't buy the tix, you lose the PSL...which is Bullshit as far as I'm concerned..........also, I think there is also something with the Giant PSL that you can't transfer ownership in the first year or something like that....so apparently you can't sell the psl right off the bat (not sure how they can stop you)

The whole thing stinks to high hell