David Carr was once a number one draft pick with tools and went to the worst possible case scenario in Houston. At his best Daute Culpepper was Wayyyyyyyyyy better than Chad and before the 07 season he had a higher lifetime passer rating than Chad which is his claim to fame. I have the right to want to see if Car can be fixed and to see if Culpepper;s knee is fixed. Are you serious about Chad. And they can have said Qb for about 1 Mil a year! The Question is why would you want them not to sign them and Keep an aging overpaid vet who can not throw?
If Carr or Culpepper were on this squad and something happened to the point where they are behind Center, I have a feeling no one would be happy and you would be pissed off about that too. I really have a lot of trouble following your logic when it comes to QBs.
Nothing pisses me off more than having Chad behind center. He is not our future or our past and has been done. At least with the Car and Culpepper I can say the team took a risk on past potential or talent. I see no reason why Chad is still a member of the team in any position other than a Coach. I could accept it because they came in and played bad. Chad has s**cked while he is here and has gotten worse as they years have gone by. My logic is Chad is so bad I would rather have any other Qb in the league because they would be upgraded unlike Chad. His passes were disgusting to look at last year. The ones he could throw when he had protection.
Chad has sucked, and there's no reason to think he will not continue to decline even further, if given the chance. He was already the worst starting Qb in the league last year. I would rather have ANYBODY currently in the league as a Qb than him. Anybody.
It is sad because Chad is a decent person and the team is not going to allow him to go away with dignity. He will be booed out of the stadium this year if he starts and that is a shame. It is going to happen it is just a matter of when.
Fair enough, sir. I am in that corner as well but to a lesser extreme. I would like to see the team go in the direction of Clemens, and if he is not the answer, or cannot beat out Chad in TC - then the team will draft a highly touted QB coming out of college next year.
I agree with this. If KC doesn't work out...it's time to draft a franchise QB. Chad is done, period. As far as Culpepper & Carr go....both are damaged goods. Culpepper, I believe, will never be the same...he's proven that with two different teams (since being with Minny)...and Carr is shell-shocked beyond repair, IMO.
I assure you Tangini would like to see the Jets go in the direction of Clemens also. Their jobs might depend on it. I also agree that that if Clemens isn't the answer the Jets are going to look for a highly touted QB in next year's draft. The Problem is, who might that be? 08's draft was a very weak one for QB's, 09 is supposed to be even worst. Ainge or Ratliff better start getting good real quick.
I would agree if the team finds itself having to rely on Chad as the starter this year, you can be virtually certain they will use a high pick on a Qb next draft. But what does that tell you? In year four they are hoping to use that high pick to find a franchise Qb? What are the odds they are successful? And how come it would have taken that long to realize that Clemens is not the answer? They should have known from Day 1 that Chad's days were numbered, which in fairness they recognized at least to the extent of drafting Clemens in the second round. Since then, though, they certainly have not maximized their opportunities to see what they have in Clemens. Maybe they play catch up this off season and do so. But I am still greatly troubled by the prospect of having taken three seasons to determine that Clemens is not the one to replace Chad.
Because it takes 3 years to know what a player is made of, especially a QB. Thats why Chad was kept, so that there was a back up that had chemistry with the receivers already and could at the minimal manage the game. The good is that in year 3 it looks like the rest of the team is ready to go. QBs are the hardest thing to scout. Too many intangibles, a lot of responsibility.
Thats cause there is none...unless signing a guy whose best season ended with a 16:14 TD:INT OR the guy whose just had 2 (more?) major surgeries on his knees and owns a 13:20 TD:INT over the past 3 years can count as logic. Seriously...who'd want either of these guys behind center? And the thing is I *like* Carr...alot actually. He really could and should have been a top QB in this league...but the guy just has built up too many habits over the years. I'd take Pennington over either of those two if I wanted an emergency starter...and I doubt many teams would disagree with that honestly.
Right, because Chad hasn't developed any bad habits. Not that I want either of those guys, but Chad is hardly a finished product. http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=420059 "Changing the ball placement, how I'm holding the ball, would be No. 1," he said. "No. 2, I'm changing the actual motion and trying to incorporate more of a torque and twisting action with my upper body to where I can really incorporate my hips more. "I want to be more compact with the throw and not be an all-arm thrower. When you're an all-arm thrower, you lose that consistency because some days you have it and some days you don't. If you really rely on your hips and your core and get a torque with the throw, that creates consistency, no matter what your arm feels like."
Just for the record... If we need to have a veteran QB who is damaged goods on board as our backup... I'd prefer a guy who has had two knee surgeries, over a guy who has had two surgeries on his throwing shoulder... Using lack of recent success, and injury history as a reason to prefer Chad as the backup over a guy like Culpepper is RIDICULOUS
Mr. Beamen, once again, if the only thing a football player in the NFL needs is an athletic body, then there's lots of those folks so why can't they get a job. As far QBs, here's some interesting takes on Mr. Culpepper: Third and Short: The precipitous fall of Culpepper… ESPN.com …Updated: June 23, 2008 “…Not very long ago, Daunte Culpepper was an upper-echelon NFL quarterback. Today, He’s unemployed after a lackluster 2007 season in Oakland. “…What has gone wrong for this first-round pick? of both quarterbacks. “…Kevin Seifert: In a league that always seems to lack quality QBs, why are these guys still jobless? “…At this point in his career, Culpepper is a pocket passer whose strong arm sometimes get in the way of good decision-making. Although the Green Bay Packers reportedly had interest in Culpepper, it's hard to imagine Culpepper developing the discipline necessary to succeed in a West Coast style, which favors structure over improvisation. “…Unable to move around like he used to, Daunte Culpepper has low value on the open market. Most teams value some level of mobility at the position….Culpepper's success with the Minnesota Vikings was based in part on his ability to break the pocket and find the open receiver. Although he has regained some mobility since suffering a devastating knee injury in October 2005, Culpepper can no longer rely on his legs to make plays. “…Finally, several acrimonious departures have given teams reason to pause when evaluating character and leadership ability. Culpepper clashed with Minnesota and Miami officials while rehabilitating his knee, and his decision to serve as his own agent remains puzzling.” “…Pool of quality QBs, extremely shallow ESPN.com 27May08 “…The first quarterback drafted in 1987 (Vinny Testaverde) started more games last season (6) than the first quarterback drafted in 2007 (JaMarcus Russell) (1). “…In all, an NFL-record 64 quarterbacks started regular-season games in 2007. That number was up from 50 starters in 2006. Even if the number stabilizes in 2008, injuries will again force some teams to dig deep for stopgap solutions at the most important position. “…The current crop of unrestricted free agents goes seven deep: Testaverde, Daunte Culpepper, Tim Hasselbeck, Tim Rattay, Jamie Martin, Craig Nall and Chris Weinke. “…Of them, Culpepper provides the best combination of age (31) and experience (90 regular-season starts). But he has thrown seven more interceptions (20) than touchdown passes (13) since suffering a catastrophic knee injury midway through the 2005 season with Minnesota. “…Given a choice between Culpepper and Russell last season, the Oakland Raiders went with Josh McCown. “…The pool of proven NFL quarterbacks is shrinking….Testaverde turned 44 in November. As hard as it might be to envision his playing past 45, GMs seeking experienced help at the position might have a harder time coming up with superior alternatives…” So...what does Oakland know that we don't know?
^ So you're saying Culpepper is a shadow of his former self? And Pennington is not? Both had promising careers ruined due to injuries. The difference, is that Pennington's were to his throwing shoulder, and Culpepper's were to his knees. If we're going to take a chance on one of these guys making some sort of return to respectability, I'd bank on the guy who can still throw the ball. You, along with EVERYONE ELSE who continues to defend Chad, act as though those of us who recognize that Pennington CANNOT make all the throws anymore, believe that the only thing necessary to succeed as a QB in the NFL is physical ability. That is NOT the case. There is A LOT of things that go into making a good QB. ONE such factor, is an ARM. If the QB cannot make all the throws, it doesn't matter how many other positive traits he possesses, he is going to struggle IMMENSELY (as we've seen) to succeed as a QB in the NFL.... NOBODY is claiming that ALL a QB needs to achieve success in the NFL is a good arm. But it is one of many traits that goes into making a good QB. Without the ability to make all the throws, a QB is very, very, very unlikely to succeed.
I think the consensus on Mr. Culpepper is apparently not very good. Apparently, no one thinks he has the mentality or discipline to change his game from run and chunk to being patient, smart, and precise. I go by what the coaches and the FOs do, not my own impressions, since I haven't seen the guy in action nearly as much as these folks. But I don't hear many encouraging words about Daunte Culpepper. The fact that he says he turned down a million dollar offer to back up a rookie in NFC North does not fill me with confidence in his competence either. He has screwed up twice (that's mentally and performance wise) already since his terrible knee injury (which was much more horrendous for a running quarterback than a rotator cuff, check it out). If D. Culpepper has the kind of settled self-confidence it takes to start and command the team, then backing up Aaron Rogers was a great opportunity.
^ I haven't been trying to talk Culpepper up. He is a shadow of his former self, without a doubt. My only point was that Chad is also a shadow of his former self. Culpepper's former self was better than Chad's. Culpepper's injuries seem like they would be easier to recover from than Chad's. To this point, neither guy has proven that he can be successful at the NFL level, post surgeries. I would prefer not to have either aboard. But if we're going to knock Culpepper for not being a good QB anymore, thanks in large part to two knee surgeries, we can't sit here and say that Chad is any better.
Mr. Beaman, I haven't said anything about Chad Pennington. I am looking for an alternative, and I don't seem to be finding any veteran quarterback with "something left" that fills me with confidence to get rid of everybody and trade whatever is asked for this tradebait vet. Mr. Big Blocker seems to think that Chris Simms is a viable alternative, however, no one in the world knows since he hasn't been on a field with his team for a long while. I think this is a "pig in a poke" at the very best. You seem to think that Daunte Culpepper represents improvement, but I clearly don't see how the guy can walk or run without limping. He is a running quarterback. He doesn't evidence much cognition either. And what's probably the worst he is player who is representing himself with an outrageously unrealistic view of his self-worth. We need a QB who will run BS' offense consistently. We also need a QB backing him up that everybody on the team respects and trusts. In case you haven't noticed, regardless of how frustrated we may feel about them, the NYJs have exactly that right now. What is better? Who is it? How are they available? This isn't Fantasy Football. We're about to head into a real NFL football season pretty soon. I ask again, because I'm still looking -- what are the alternatives to Chad and Kellen? Where are they? Where have they been? How could we get them? ...No answer....?
That is a total and absolute cop-out. You can't look at viable alternatives if you don't consider the player you are replacing. It's like saying that you want to find better toilet paper but you refuse to consider what you are currently wiping your ass with. Well, sort of.
