Maybe it has something to do with keeping our options open incase either one goes down and that the other guy doesn't feel like he's the back-up until they get to see how each plays with all the new guys around them. Or keeping Chad's value for trading up.
Now that makes allot more sense to me than some of the other Mr. Rogers theory's I heard lately. Good points!!! :beer:
Appreciate it, I hope all my posts aren't that hard to understand. I reread them in your quote and I was like, wait, WTF am I saying there?
The point here is that if Chad really had anything to contribute to the Jet's offense he wouldn't have been replaced last season. The last minute pick 6's blew chunks but the facts are that if the Jets (with Chad at the helm) had been able to put up any kind of points before the 4th quarter the pick 6's would probably never have happened. I'm not arguing that Clemens came in and lead the offense because that's clearly not true, however Chad didn't do anything impactful either. Given two QB's who are failing to perform I will take the young guy every day and twice on Sunday because there is at least a possibility that he'll turn into a meaningful performer for the Jets whereas it has become clear that Chad is not any more. Realistically Chad hasn't been a particularly good QB for the Jets since the first shoulder injury. He's just kind of managed to hold the job by dinking and dunking and not looking too bad as the Jets won or lost based on other factors. Last year the rest of the team collapsed and Chad was exposed for what he is, which is a guy who can always find somebody to catch a meaningless pass before a punt or FG attempt. Now and then one of his skill position players breaks a long gainer after the catch and that makes everything look a little bit better. When the defense gives him great field position he can put up 7 also. Ask yourself how many times he took the Jets 80 yards for a score since 2004.
Can t blame anyone for last season you just gotta move on and give Kellen more time to get in sync with his receivers and vice versa... you must realize the people are so use to chad pennington throwing soft touch passes and when somebody throws a bullet or maybe even in a different way then your use to you are gonna drop the ball...
Yeah but there is no evidence that Clemens can do any better, people act like he definitely will and the coaches just chose to treat him like a step child and that's just not the case. With all we know about Chad, there is absolutely no reason why Clemens should not win the starting job, how he will do remains to be seen. All I know is right now he is winning the job by default because Chad is sucking, not because Kellen is lighting it up, and that sucks!!!
There is a pretty good argument that the Jets should have cut Chad and brought in another veteran QB to compete with Clemens in camp. A Daunte Culpepper or somebody like that. The argument for doing that would have been twofold: 1. With Chad gone there would have been no ties and no incumbency in the QB position and so if Clemens could not win the job then it would be obvious that he was not capable of doing so. 2. It would have pushed the hell out of Clemens, being a clear signal that he had to win the job this year or probably give up on being the Jet's QB. It would have taken a secure CS and FO to do that and obviously we don't have either at the moment, regardless of how many fake guarantees (Brian Billick got fired a year after going 13-3 and Bill Cowher got pushed out a year after winning a Super Bowl) Woody gave his current staff.
Sad, but if Kellen is not ready to take the next step, we are screwed, and unless the CS see something I don't and think that Chad was the next best option, it sucks even worse. Not to mention the whole dollar amount Chad is going to cost them over another veteran QB.
Each loss is its own entity, we as Jet fans know this by now. One week it's the QB, one week it's the defense, one week it's a TD pass dropped, etc. The difference between 2006 and 2007 was a handful of key plays the Jets as a team were able to make in 06 that they never made in 07. To single out one QB or the other is not an accurate assessment. There was no QB who was going to overcome the lack of blocking, rushing and defense the rest of the team displayed over 16 games. The QB is high profile, so he gets the heat and when it's his fuck up it's magnified and everyone remembers it, but as we saw last year, changing QBs made no difference whatsoever. Unless you have an ax to grind with one guy or the other, as many people here do, this leads one to think the QB was not nearly the whole problem.
A lot of the know-it-alls here had this down as a done deal, which shows you how much they really know. A team with no established #1 QB would be foolish to get rid of a guy who knows the offense and has the respect of the team (is a captain), just for the sake of bringing in someone else who isn't an upgrade. Neither guy got through their half season last year without getting injured, so to open up a new area of need when we had so many others is absolutely assinine. Especially at what is probably the most important position on the field.
Mr. Seafood, I agree with you. The quarterback position is not the biggest problem on the NYJs. It hasn't been for some time. A lot of folks on this "message board" scapegoat both Chad and Kellen, but it is the chronic disrespect for the NYJ on both sides of the line of scrimmage that has been our downfall for some time now. Our OL and DL have been ineffective. This year I get the impression that the CS and FO are finally interested in doing something about this. It is a very hard thing to do -- fix the linemen on both sides of the ball -- in a season or two. CS tend to hold on to their big and fast guys. The ones coming up out of the Kiddie Leagues have a lot to learn for the most part. I am looking forward to seeing what our moves this year bring.
I like what they did, though. They addressed the O line, got a fullback, drafted a receiver/TE or whatever he's going to be. On D they added three good guys (we hope) to the three we had, and they didn't panic over the QB spot. I think they did pretty well in a short time, we'll have to see how it pans out, like you said.
The fact that we haven't had a full season from a healthy QB since 98 doesn't matter? 06 we got a full season out of Pennington for the first time in his career but anyone who thought he didn't suffer from a tired arm during 06 wasn't watching. We squandered a great team in 99, blew a great opportunity in 02 with a QB comp that picked the wrong QB. We had an outstanding team in 04 only to have our QB go down with injury for the 2 time in 2 years. We had what many thought was a SB team in 05 only to have our QB go down for the third time in 3 years. And yes our starting QB went down in game one in 07 for the 4th time in 5 years but QB isn't hasn't been a problem for the Jets in recent memory, we have been rock solid at QB for years. :sad: And lets ignore the fact that when healthy we had a starting QB with at best a below average arm who has now had surgery on his throwing shoulder twice, surgery on his hand and topped off with a leg injury last year.
I hardly think the injuries are the deliberate result of an incompetent malingering player who abandons his team mates for the sake of being hurt. Players usually get hurt when they get hit unexpectedly -- as in when someone failed to do their job of protection. It wasn't just Pennington but Fiedler too who went down in a single game. Do you think they both squandered the season? I think there is a lot more "good luck" on teams whose OL's smash the other guy in the mouth most of the time, instead of having it done to themselves on a regular basis by some sniggering defense. I think that skilll players stay healthier when their OL wins the line of scrimmage. Football tends to work that way, in my opinion.
Again not his fault he is fragile not in the least. His injury in 03 wasn't the fault of the OL or in 04 or last year but keep ignoring the fact that the guys arm isn't any good for NFL qualitiy play because of an injury he sustained when the Jets had one of the best OL in football and an outright dominating OL. You need a QB even with a good OL and DL to win in a passing league that has set the rules up to favor the passing game.
Winstonbiggs, if the CS and FO of the NYJ agreed with you there might be more of an alternative by now. But the fact is, going by their behavior, they simply don't feel the same way you do. I think Kellen got a lot out of last year, and I am very impressed with this frame-by-frame critique and roadmap back which Brian Daboll and BS put together for both these QBs. It will be most interesting to see how they react to their 'recipe' books. Whoever wins this QB competition, if our OL sheds the historical "finesse" philosophy and goes after a bit more blood on the line, the running game will brutalize our way into more opportunities for the entire offense. We don't seem to want to hurt people when we run the ball -- and I don't mean the macho RB in this case. He should be the icing on the cake, the benficiary of good successful violence on the LOS, not the object of it and not the gratuitous delivery of it either. If you don't hurt people when you run the ball, they will eventually stop your butt. Successful running games don't get stopped that often. Personally, I wouldn't be totally against running the ball ALL the time when we can't be stopped. Make the DL fall in love with running down the field after our RBs for a change.
Successful running games only get stopped in Jan when they play the elite sb caliber teams and they can take the strength of any team away. At which point the Qb has to actually make and complete throws over ten yards when the Defense knows it's coming. We have one Qb who might be able to do that in Clemens and one who has proven he can't throw in crunch time in Chad! The Chargers have Lt and they get stopped every year and their Qb is not able to step up, The Patriots had the most prolific passing game ever last year and the Giants stopped them, The Rams got stopped by the Pats because they used 8 Db's and made them Run in the Sb. The point is a great team can stop the Jets running game and Make our Qb Throw. Period!
While a strong running attack is great to have, solid QB play is a necessity in this league whether you want to admit it or not. Go back and look at the last few superbowls and the QB's of the winning teams had to step up and make big plays when the game was on the line to get the job done. When you're down with 2 minutes to go it doesn't matter how great your running game is or how great your defense is. You QB has to make plays. Obviously the o-line, receivers and the rest of the offense do too, but the ball is in the QB's hand every play - he's the one steering the ship. QB play is a huge factor in determining winners and losers in this league whether you want to admit it or not. Obviously it's not the only factor in the ultimate team sport, but there's a reason why teams with great QBs are usually in the championship hunt.
