And what is it we have? I see 2 QBs: one is done, and the other is a capable backup. This team needs a Qb, and Matt Ryan would fit the bill nicely.
Do you have that little faith in Clemmens? Hard to judge given the overall state of the team last year. Hard for a 1st timer to succeed behind one of the worst o-lines in the NFL....... Although the thing that concerned me most was his lack of progression throughout the season.
Here is the problem with Clemens. He has really good tools in terms of a nice live arm and a great release. His footwork overall showed a raw prospect that needs a ton of work that went beyond a crappy OL. He also is very short for todays NFL. I have no issue if they believe in him but the fact is they haven't given him the starting job and that tells me the Coach thinks he is still a project. You don't draft a QB in round 2 hand him the starting job half way through his second season and then not name him the starter in year 3 of a 4 year deal. QB isn't a position you want competition in, it's a position you want to build your team around.
fair enough. I agree with most of your assessment (particularly the footwork), but still seems hard to pass fair judgment given the conditions.
I don't think we're picking a QB in this draft at all unless some team coughs up good value for Chad or Clemens
It's not even close to the #1 need. Pass rusher, general D-line, bigger, faster weapons on offense...
When a team doesn't know who their starting QB is by draft time it is always the #1 need. Right now we don't have a Qb the CS is comfotable with enough to name as the starter.
While I'd prefer a different pick, and would probably be a bit upset if Ryan were the pick at 6, I do have to say that taking Ryan doesn't necessarily mean that they've completely given up on Clemens. If the team's board is thinned out by the first 5 picks, and we're unable to trade down, I'd rather see Ryan picked up than reach for a CB. If the FO has doubts about Clemens, they may choose to pick up Ryan in that situation to either give Clemens a push or have a replacement in place should he fail. The situations in San Diego and Cleveland have shown that you can recoup the choice if both QBs end up succeeding, and likely mean that management is much more willing now to take a QB in round one if they're not sold on Clemens. If Ryan turns out to be a star, the worst case scenario is that Clemens fails and becomes a backup. The best case scenario is that one of them is traded in the future for a whole lot of value. Again, I'd prefer a different pick, but it's not the end of the world if they take Ryan.
I don't buy it. We have two perfectly viable options at QB. Why the hell would we throw #6 money at a QB when: 1. Already have a big money QB. 2. Just used a second on one two years ago. 3. You don't just fix the QB position by drafting a new one. Thats just idiocy and poor fan logic. The football world doesn't revolve around the QB position, though the fans and the media have done a nice job of convincing themselves of that. Why would we give up on Clemens already? If you just bought a car and it struggled early on, would you go ahead and buy a new car or find the problem and fix it? I mean be reaching here guys...you and Winstonbiggs can explain this to me I guess...maybe the problem wasn't the QB position? Maybe the problem was the fact that our O-line was disgusting and it threw EVERYTHING about the offense off? Crazy shit maybe? I'm thinking that when your O-line sucks...your running game sucks. Shockingly, ours sucked. If your O-line and running game sucks, then your passing game suffers. Shockingly, a QB that just won CBPOY saw a huge dropoff because of this. It's not because Pennington doesn't have the magic fucking pixie dust you guys seem to think all great QBs possess. I have no idea how people are already done with Clemens despite the fact that he was the starting QB in all 4 of our wins, should have gotten 2 more at least, and our offense generally improved under him. But then again...I forget our QBs don't have "IT." We need to get one of those. "IT" wins ballgames, and you can't prove me wrong because I have no idea what "it" is...so there.
YES!!!!! Id consider this offseason to be a complete waste of time. WE have clemens i dont mind taking a qb next year but not this year. Ryan is pennington 2.0
You don't think the CS has a better handle on what they have in Clemens then the average Joe Shmoe fan? If Ryan is drafted then they are not comfortable going forward with only Clemens, it really is that simple. All evidence up to this point suggests that they are not happy with Clemens. We don't have two viable options at QB, we don't even have one at this point. Penningtons ship has sailed as the starter for this team, plus he isn't healthy and never will be at full strength again. Clemens was atrocious last year and while some of it can be the fault of the OL, it is naive to believe that was the only reason for his struggles. Clemens will get his chance this year regardless of if we draft Matt Ryan or not. If he works out having two young QBs with potential is a positive not a negative.
GUYS. I didn't know what to think about it either if it works out like that. But Qb is the most important position and it what makes great teams great. It is our weakest area right now no doubt about it. IF we end taking him we would have two young qbs that have potential. I wasn't impressed with Kellen last year and I really wanted to be. I know the O-line was bad but at times that wasn't the issue and he still misses easy passes. I am not saying I want to draft Matt Ryan but if it happens you can't be mad about it. That is the number one Qb coming out this year and it is an area of need for us. How could you be upset about it. It makes sense doesn't it? I think that you have to trust the coaching staff no matter what they do. I really respect them when it comes to moves, drafts and picking players in general. I love what they focus on and I think either way we will get some awesome players in this years draft. Don't be mad about it though..no need. doesn't even make sense.
The big money QB we allready have has had two shoulder surgeries and has at best a second rate arm and was benched. They can unload his contract, it's not guaranteed. Clemens is cheap money showed little and they don't think enough of him in year three to name him the starter. QB competitions are all about an unsettled QB position.
How do you know this? Cause they haven't you told you? I have no idea where you people get your "facts" from but I want some of the inside sources people have here... And that still gives me no reason to pick Ryan at 6.
You think Clemens is the planed starter today? If you believe that and that Mangini is happy with him as the franchise QB, I agree with you no need to draft Ryan. Every thing they have said indicates that isn't the case. Of course it could all be a smoke screen and they have no intention of having a QB competition. I'm just going on what they have said.
Yea, I think Clemens'll start. I think we grab someone late, but theres also a legit shot we won't either...I'm cool with either. Personally, I believe you overrate the crap out of the QB position really...no real reason for us to draft one high with two guys who will probably do well if the team plays better. An offense is a unit, not the QB and a bunch of guys helping him look good.
I was kinda expecting this. It is hard to read the FO. If they plan on giving Clemens the reins for next year, I really want to believe that there will be major improvement. Looking at what you wrote one could make the argument the Clemens and Pennington are somewhat interchangeable in the statement simply based on the productivity and the fact that no one distinguished themselves as "the guy" last year. I will say that if we do draft Ryan and start him next year, I doubt we win more than 6 or 7 games (absolute max). Given the amount of money we spent that would be very unexceptable. For this reason alone, I do not think we are going Ryan. I really think it is a screen to trade down if he is there at #6.
I think Clemens probably will start also. As far as the QB, I know you think I over rate the QB as do a lot of people. I think other than a very good organization with a solid group of football minds and a solid plan, the QB is by far the most important player on your team and the only way you win without a real good one is if you have an outright dominating, loaded with HOF players D.
I disagree. An open competition between QBs that have evidenced an open cooperation throughout their tenure together represents the best kind of pressure to improve available without a trial by fire. The so-called regression that occurred with Clemens last year was the steady destruction of offensive alternatives that happened in game after game. Defenses dismembered the NYJ's OL -- first the running game was stymied and the passing game was attacked. The possibilities with from anything to zero very quickly for the NYJ's offense -- It is amusing to watch the people on this "Message Board" flounder around trying to ignore the 800 lbs gorilla in the room (a failed OL) while they try to come up with reasons why the QBs found ways every week to let the team down and fail, in spite of all this effort and great team esprit de corps. From the off-season response of the CS and the FO, it is actually simple -- when your OL can't block for the run or the pass, you have to stop everything and rebuild the OL. First, you bring in upgrades for the starters, and next you have to upgrade your second team backups (this takes longer than the first wave of a fortunate pre-draft FA market). Next, you have to upgrade your defense's run stopping and your defensive pass rush. And when these two primary objectives are addressed as best as you can, when you can block pretty well for the run and the pass, and when you can get the opposing offense off the field, then you can see what you have in the way of QBs, WRs, and RBs. Until the NYJs establish and sustain a dominating context on both sides of the line of scrimmage, upgrading skill players are a waste of time and money. They will just get stomped out by the other team's Big Uglies.
