Who is taking the risk with this competition? I say it is Chad. If Chad loses out to a newbie with less than a season under his belt, who will want him? And if somebody thinks Chad is serviceable after being beaten out by Kellen in an open and fair competition behind a killer OL, what will they think he is worth?
That's why you cut him or trade him before camp.... If Chad is the starter, the team is setting its ceiling too low. We've seen what Chad can do with an excellent supporting cast, and it's not nearly enough.... If Chad is the backup, we're paying relatively big bucks to a backup who is NOT happy, and may be a distraction (the same way he was last year- hinting that he wanted to be a starter, becoming an issue whenever Kellen made a poor play)... To me, if we can get anything for Pennington now, we pull the trigger.... Yeah, having a veteran backup who knows the system is a good thing. But not if he's disgruntled.... It's not worth it....
Would you prefer he acted like he was happy being a backup? I'm sure Mangini wouldn't be. That's just plain nonsense talk. Oh, and that's not a distraction to want to play. If you want to know what a distraction is, it's Chad Johnson who doesn't want to play. Or Terrell Owens in Philadelphia who didn't want to play. Those are distractions.
Quote: "...We've seen what Chad can do with an excellent supporting cast, and it's not nearly enough.... " I beg to differ with you. The OL of the NYJ has yet to impress. I don't give a damn how good Curtis Martin was. We need an OL that can overwhelm any DL it faces -- that's in the regular season, in the playoffs, hell any damned where you want to draw the scrimmage line. The NYJ doesn't scare anybody. Until the NYJ Big Uglies strike fear in the hearts of their opposition what ballet dancers we happen to put out there don't matter one iota.
Pennington was sacked 18 times in 13 games in 2004.... He was playing behind, arguably, a top 5 OL.... He had the top rusher in the league... The defense let up 14 points or fewer in 9 of 16 regular season games... The defense forced 2+ TOs in 10 of 16 games.... All the pieces were in place, and Pennington, whose arm-strength was much less abysmal (although still unimpressive) than it is now, did not have enough....
Nothing but blasphemous rumors. Not only will he be a Jet, he'll be starting. Or didn't you get the memo?
04 was our year, just like 98 was... we average a AFC Championship/SB run every 4-6 years... It comes down to QB play on both of them... Vinny and Chad couldn't get it done. We need someone who can. I dont care who- just get me that guy.
he wants a chance to start, and he will get that chance, now after the 4th preseason game where is he gonna go?
I see the logic of your argument. But who do we go with as our No.2 QB, Tui? I just don't think that picking up one of this year's QB's (2nd Rounders like Brohm, Henne and Flacco) would make too much sense if we can bolster other parts of the team. Let the best man win in TC....and let the loser prepare to play at any given time. Who ever loses should just cowboy-up and keep his thoughts to himself.
hey beamen you are right on the money, I think that the jets should get what they can for him and draft henne, I think he will be a very good quaterback down the road. Dont know why I feel that way about him, only seen him play couple a times and got a good feeling about him.
People talk over here as if they see him practice every day. All I see is that Chad completes passes much more often than any QB in the league. Maybe someone can do a research and prove me wrong, but until then, CP has the highest completion percentage among the active QBs. People say he's too predictable...then how come he still completes passes??? People say he has a weak arm...Is'nt that irrelevant as far as he completes his 5-10yard dump passes??? People say he can't lead the team to win the SB...How many SB rings Marino has??? People say he's getting old...Is there any one on earth who is getting younger??? People say he'll be cut...Are you the fucking headcoach of the JETS? Do you have any fuckin idea what the hell goes in the FO? Do they take advice from your sorry ass? Just shut the fuck up and hope the Jets FO takes the action thats good for the team...period.
I agree at the end of that.. we should trust the CS and let them make the best decison. But, the 4 questions can be contested. Predictable but accurate-- 5-10 yrd dumps arent easy to defend against. But once a CB learns the timing and jumps the route- you get what we got last year from Chad- Game Losing pick 6's. He can't lead the team to an SB even with the best RB and a top 5 D.... Marino got to a SB with a shitty Defense and thats why he lost to the Redskins-- He at least made it there. He is 8 years in with 2 shoulder surgeries, a broken wrist, ankle problems etc... Time + injuries means its time to take the role of a Trent Dilfer.
Mick, those 4 questions are the basis of the debate. 1. predictability. Teams did'nt jump the routes on him until last year. That happened mostly on obvious passing situation while trailing in the last few mins. OL was also the cause that created the pressure on him. 2. SB...there have been varying trends lately, but Ravens won it based on its D, so did the Bucs. Brad Johnson won the SB??? Few years later, he was backing Romo. SB can be reached with a good defense. 3. Age...CP won the comeback player of the year award couple years ago. He threw 10 TDs in half a season. In a full season, he would have thrown about 18 TDs and 14 ints. Kick the OL from worse to agruably the top 5 and he may even produce 30 TDs. I would'nt mind 10 picks. Hes only 30. Vinny played until he was about half a century old. He has ATLEAST 7-10 years left...more than enough time to get back into shape. 30 is when most the QBs reach their prime. He will be in his prime this year. Last year was just one of the odd years for him IMO. 4. Arm strength...The question is not how far he can throw. The question is, does he have enough time for plays to develop down the field? Not last year for sure. I cant remember which game this was from but he threw a 40yards odd completion to someone that travelled 60 yards from one point to another. I was convinced he can throw deep too but not having enough time is what restricts him and the game plan. Somebody was right. If CP is to get $7M this year, he is not going to be a benchwarmer. That might make history as making the most money sitting on the bench with a clipboard in his hand.
Agree with most of that except for Pennington having 7-10 years left. No way he's still suiting up late in his 30's.
These are all very, very good points. I remember that 04 season very, very, well. Let's go over some things shall we. Who did the Jets lose to in those 6 games they lost that year: 1. 22-17 @ Buffalo when he got injured. 2. A close 13-7 defeat to the eventual champion Patriots @ New England. A team, need I remind you, who were then on a winning streak for the ages. 3. A 20 - 17 OT loss to Baltimore in which Chad was not the starter (Quincy Carter). 4. A 23 -7 loss again to the Patriots, a game in which Chad admittedly stunk it up. 5. A 17-6 loss to the Steelers, who were 15-1, and an AFC Championship representative (as we all know). 6. A 32-29 OT Loss to the St. Louis Rams,@ St Louis. A game in which the defense lost the game for the Jets. My point is this: 1) The Jets lost three games to clearly superior teams (Pats & Steelers). 2) Of those 6 total losses, Chad stunk it up on three games @ Buffalo, @ Steelers, vs. New England, tossing interceptions a-plenty. Though it's not perfect: 3 bad games out of 13 starts is good. Not elite level, and no one is stating that Chad is close to there. But not as bad as we all say. To win the superbowl you need at least TWO elite levels perfoming at the same time. Let's take a look at some recent Superbowl winners. Going backwards: Giants - Elite D-Line and Quarterback playing at an elite level (not saying he's an elite QB just played at an elite level for the playoffs). Colts: Elite QB and the defense playing at an elite level. Steelers: Elite running game & elite defense. Patriots (04&03&01): Tom Brady & elite defense. Buccaneers & Ravens (02 & 00 respectiveley): Two of the elite defenses of all time here. Think of times the Jets had two elite levels that perfomed in the playoffs. Not just regular season...playoffs (Cue Jim Mora). In 2004... the Jets had an elite level running game and an elite level defense. In the two games playoff games in '04 against the Chargers and Steelers, the Jets were held to 88 rushing yards in the first game and under 100 rushing yards against the Steelers. One of our elite levels failed us in the playoffs. The defense continued to be spectaular in both games, holding high powered offenses to 20 points. But when it came to rushing the ball, our elite was not better than the oppositions' elite. These things happen in higher competition. Chad was the difference against the Chargers; throwing that bomb to Santana Moss that covered 47 yards and beat double coverage. Making clutch passes to set up Doug Brien to get the game winner in OT. But the Steeler defense, coming off a bye, was just so, so, dominant. People talk about how Chad let the Jets down in that game, not getting one offensive touchdown, but where was the run game that he needs so desperately to be effective? It was gone! Don't blame Chad when one of the things the Jets depended on so much in the regular season was taken from them. The Jets relied on the run and the defense in 04. The run failed in the playoffs and so did they. Not Chad's fault in '04, we all know he's not elite. In 06, people talk about the easy schedule, and they should, because they are exactly right. The Jets had NO elite units in '06, and everyone knows it. The Jets just beat the teams we were supposed to beat, like all good teams are supposed to do. Couldn't run, couldn't stop the run. Done! Game over right there. We relied on schemes and superior coaching efforts to make it. Again: NOT Chad's fault we didn't make it far in the playoffs. Even though he diid pass for 300 yards against the Pats in that playoff game, it all goes back to this: couldn't run, couldn't stop the run. Then... Eric Mangini and the rest of the Jets brain trust from, 06 to 07, did the EXACT fatal flaw that Hermand Edwards did from, 04-05,: Misappropriated the talent level on the team. Herm thought all we needed was a kicker, and that's basically all he went and got in the draft. Our O-line was in shambles and our QB's got hurt. Same with Eric. He fought with and eventually traded Pete Kendall, thinking the O-line was good enough without him. WRONG! Then he went out and got a very good RB, again misappropriating his O-Line Talent. What'd we get, 1 Freaking rushing touchdown from the New RB! Conversely Kevan Barlow, (Mr. where is he now), got 6 in 06. THE WHOLE TEAM HAD SIX THIS SEASON!! The Line's mean everything damnit! I mean C'mon allowing 53 sacks!?!?!?!?! You F**king kidding me?!?!?!?!? How dare any of you call out Chad when, more than anyone, he has been let down the most of any within the Jet's organization. Had a good team in 2002 and it was bought out from under him. Came back from injury after injury, only to be cheered at being injured in his own stadium. Came back from injury to play a then meaning less 2003 season. Was let down in the playoffs by Herm's bad coaching in '04 against the Steelers. And no, I'm not just talking about not moving the ball foward, or more to the center for Doug Brien to get the game winning kick. I mean not yanking Curtis Martin and putting in Lamont Jordan in the game. Jordan was killing the Steelers! Had a 19 yard run to set up the game winner in San Diego. The Steelers had a tough time getting the man down, get him the ball. I'm talking about Chad pennington being 'comback player of the year one year', to being compared to a man who put up these numbers: G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Sk Yds 10 8 130 250 52.0 1529 5 10 4.0 56 6.1 4.5 11.8 152.9 60.9 27 138 Vs... 9 8 179 260 68.8 1765 10 9 3.5 57 6.8 5.6 9.9 196.1 86.1 26 178 who is better here? Even with our ABYSMAL Offesnive Line Chad had an 86.1 Passer rating. Are we looking at the big picture here? Are we? Chad is not elite. We know this. I've stated this. He can be very good with very players/elite units around him. Can we win with Chad? Yes! The management knows it screwed up going into 2007. It's not Chad's fault. They know this. They also know with our offensive line, they don't have a good read on Clemens. But they KNOW what they get with Pennington. And look at how they are building the team. Faneca, Woody, Pace, Jenkins, Richardson, keeping Coles happy enough to make him report to voluntary workouts. They want to get to an elite level running game and defense again. And Chad will be the starter, because a strong arm does not make you an accurate passer.
I've come to this conclusion... its time to find the next franchise QB... a 1st round, highly touted can't miss talent that can either start right away (Manning) or learn for 1/2 season or 1 year then start (Palmer)-- when that pick is available, do everything to get that guy, i don't care if you have to sell the farm. I don't want the Clemens', or Brohm's. The "maybes"... i want the "next (insert winner here)" If it takes Chad being the QB for the next 5 years with superior talent around him, until the next Manning comes along, do it. Thats how a team should be run, you have your QB from Chad-likes that can start for 10 years if healthy, to the Manning's that can lead and create their own offense from scratch at the line. Once they begin to decline in the slightest, and your team has a top 5-15 pick and you can take the next great QB, get him and make it clear that when the time is right, the draftee will come and lead this team whether it be 1 or 2 years time like Palmer did. No projects, no "upside" players... the next great winners... hell, if you have to sell your next year 1st rounder as well do it... as long as its the guy that can take you to a bowl game. Just don't pick a bust- then your fucked.
Otherwise the Jets would've had a few SB wins with Testaverde. Thats exactly the point people dont get in NY. BTW, that was an elite post...lol. What I dont get is, why dont people get it? We are in a win now situation. Some great points and stats by EIFMP makes is clear which QB can win games... someone who has a 60 odd passer rating or 85 odd passer rating. At best, I will put Clemens to be a 6-10 QB and if he's really lucky, maybe he can push upto 8-8. Chad, as EIFMP stated, is not elite but at best, he can lead this team to 10-6, and if 'hes' really lucky, maybe even 12-4. One more bad season and Tangini could be on their ways to Oakland next year (cuz they gonna stink like hell). So theres an urgency. If spending so much money takes the team to an 8-8 season, don't expect Woody to keep the Tangini co. Thats just one of the reason why CP will start. At worst, he'll be an 8-8 IMO. Clemens can be 4-12 at worst again. BTW, we all know CP had his worst season last year while putting up 86.1 passer rating. There were only 8 other QBs that had 90+ passer rating. The great Eli Manning had a shitty 73 passer rating but still won the SB. He was sacked almost as much as CP did (9 games, 26 sacks) which means his O-Line was fine giving up ONLY 27 sacks in 16 games but he still had a passer rating much lower than CPs. Not to forget CPs 2nd overall completion percentage of 68.8 only behind Brady's 68.9. All that with a shitty OL. If u wanna blame him for anything, then blame him for having such an OL. Kendell was good, but he was getting too old to give a raise. Im glad he left cuz he was'nt going to make this team a 10-6 last year. We still would have missed the playoffs cuz he was'nt the only missing piece. Since he left, it probably cost us a couple of games and we are now in a good shape to shape up the team in the draft. I would like to see DMC in the lineup. His fumble problems can be solved but with him n this OL, Chad is going to shine. His signature playaction fake will once again become an effective weapon. It will open up plays deep when the safeties start buying it. However, McFadden or Thomas, it really wont matter. Ring a bell? To me it does. It means, QB is not the only one to win the games. You need all the pieces to get it done. I want the Jets to win, be it with CP or even if its without CP, Coles, Cotchery, Jones, Mangold, Dbrick, Faneca, Woody, Jenkins, Pace, Harris, Revis, Rhodes or any other 'future hall of fame' players Broadway/Herm brought to the team.
Wow..so it was all Pennington and had nothing to do with Edwards? Ok. If you want to use your logic then there were also 30 other QBs in the league who also didn't have enough and a lot of them were playing on better teams than Pennington. I guess they should all be let go too. Sound good to me. Maybe we can pick one of them up.
