You have to take chances to re-build. I read when Mangini first came here that the entire NE coaching staff - himself included had no respect for this guy. Garbage time is over. Let's suffer with some young QB's with NFL arms.
Peyton Manning, Big Ben, Tom Brady, Brett Farve win games. They come out and beat you. They don't play Herm Dink and dunk ball. They play to win not to lose.
The QB that wins the competition must be able to make all the throws. But more importantly, he has to be able to master and manage the BS offensive strategy. First and foremost, this strategy will be predicated on an absolutely murderous running game -- we want to average six yards on first down in EVERY series. In this case, you are stomping out the DL and they have to try and throw everything including the kitchen sink at you to try and stop your RBs from running rough-shod over them. In this case, you need a master manager who can hand off and wave, who can play-fake and throw to the flying WR behind the DBs well downfield, and who can hand off and wave again. If there is no powerful and dangerous running game, then there is no opportunity to artfully shift from the pass to the run to the pass in a manner designed to frustrate, enrage and otherwise discourage the pitiful defensive effort that cannot stop you. This is what I mean by managing the game: How we get to 40 to 0 by the end of the 4th quarter. NOT whether we do.
They still have to be effective game managers. They have to manage the offense in terms with time on the clock, and prevent turnovers. It isn't about a dink and dunk offense, and hell, Brady himself does a fair amount of that in his own offense as it is. Peyton Manning is an excellent game manager... Favre is more of a cowboy though, I admit.
Now "Herm Dink and Dunk" ball is what you do when you have a piss-poor running game, and you hope you can rely on your defense to hold the fort because you surely know you cannot possibly outscore the other team with your manly offense. This is a last-resort strategy, which you are reduced to because you have failed utterly to develop a respect-generating OL that can pummel the DL into submission on first down every time for at least six yards. The appropriate strategy is to build an offense that immediately convinces the other team that they cannot stop your running game, no matter what they do, so they better panic and try to start improvising because otherwise they don't have a chance in hell in this game. "Herm Dink and Dunk" ball is a defeatist acceptance of the lousy job the FO and the CS has done in building a respectable football team that is designed to dominate. "Herm Dink and Dunk" ball is disgraceful because it does not seek to win by aggression, but prays to hold on through dogged defense.
When the game is on the line those quarterbacks attempt the throws to win the game. They don't check down every play. They go for it when the money is on the line. All of the above mentioned Qb's will throw three or four picks but at the end of the day the will have given it their all to win the game. Playing to win is what Peyton did when he told his defense to get off the field a few years ago in playoff win. Playing to win is brady getting his team down the field in less than a minute to win games. They make the ones around them better by their presence.
The problem is we have been playing the same offense since he left. Nothing has changed. If your Qb can not throw the defense will always be able to stop your run.
I see where you are coming from with it now. I don't completely agree with you about it, but I understand what you are getting at. Most of those QB's have been more successful at doing just that. I don't put Pennington among the echelon of QB's you mentioned. I'd rate him further down the line. He does take those chances when his back is to the wall in a game and it doesn't always pan out.
See? All we have to do is go get a Tom Brady or a Peyton Manning. It's so simple I can't believe none of us thought of it before.
Please look at how many times Ben has thrown over 25 times and won. He is less than 50%. He is the absolute game manager. What happened to them this year without a running game?
Whats scary is that your sarcasm is the truth. Its guys like that that do win Super Bowls and are the golden standard at their craft. The teams who have guys that good go to the SB, regardless of win or lose. Marino was good, but he got there and lost. It all starts with a great QB
Big Ben didn't have a helluva lot to do with the Pittsburgh win at the SB. Better go back and check on the play by play -- it is available on line, if you're interested in the facts.
"Herm" dink and dunk........remove the HERM and you've got Joe Montana...they accused him of the same stuff as he was winning SUPERBOWLS
Lets not lower our standards to the point we discuss a Jet Qb with Joe Montana. Joe coult throw a 10 yard out.
Yea I missed the play at the end of the first half where Ben broke out from the rush moved to his left and got a 50 yard pass off against his body that put the ball on the 3 and set up a TD at the end of the first half that totally turned that game around. His stats sucked, bad QB rating but having an arm, a big body and the ability to move on the run throw against his body while taking multiple hits had a huge impact on Pittsburgh winning that game. Sorry but if your interested in facts try not to use QB rating to understand why ability and play makers decide tough games against two equally tough teams. Game managers contain games they don't win them.
I think that BS' tenure began with Mangini, and I don't think you can characterize BS' offensive strategy with that of Herm's. Perhaps the one thing they have in common is an OL that refuses to show up. Don't confuse the 1.5 seconds the QB has to read the defense, set his feet, and throw the ball when there is little or no pass blocking with a bad performance by the QB under satisfactory conditions.
Very true. When you can't run block and you can't pass protect long enough for receivers to get deep, the only other option is a short passing game. Or a punt.
Chad can not consistently make throws over 20 yards when he has 10 seconds to throw. He routinely under throws receivers down field who are wide open! This has nothing to do with protection.
I know when people hear "arm strength" they think "deep passes"- but that's not my, or most logical Jet fans' problem with Pennington. He doesn't have the arm strength to throw to the sidelines, ever.... Go back and read post-game quotes from Cincinatti and Giants' defenders about 'sitting' on the out routes... There is nothing that gets a CB salivating more than knowing a QB with an arm as weak as Chad's needs to move down the ball downfield and throw the ball to the sideline in the two minute drill.... There are QBs that scare defenses when they're down by a score with 2 minutes left, and then there's Chad....
