i'm very VERY confused on this. now that we traded drob, what's the difference to the cap? are we now 12 million more under the cap as a result of his trade?
maybe im a bit off base here, but i dont understand everyone blaming mangini repeatedly for trying to force the 3-4. if youre going to be upset with the switch to the 3-4, then blame the people who hired mangini. he is a 3-4 coach, this is what he is comfortable with, this is what he knows, and i doubt he lied about it during his job interview. once we got him as coach, this is where we were going, so i'm happy that at least he is making the moves now to create the defense he wants rather than the last two years when he was trying to force it on players ill-suited to play that scheme.
i agree the drafting has looked very good, and we have 3 fourth's in next years draft with the kendal and vilma trade. hopefully that vilma pick turns into a 3rd but either way i like it. i just think we could've gotten more value for them if we traded them away last offseason, but like u said i'm sure they tried.
WOW. thats awsome this trade was worth it just to be rid of that cap hit. there's your pace money right there.
Part of the problem is "Fans" get too hung up on labels... What this defense really is is a Flexible front defense... You dont' scrap your entire belief system in running a deceptive front defense and go with a Vanilla straight up 4-3 all for Vilma and Robertson with bad knees. Again, even a 4-3 defense needed work and a big body on the DL.... But, did you ever want to pay two bad knee Defenders the money they will be due soon?
Moving a poor fit, gettign huge cap relief and some draft picks back. Not too bad at all. For the people lamenting on how high these guys were drafted you are right in that sense. On the other hand, if you hold on to player who are jsut not working out and pay them a ton jsut becase they were high picks that is foolish. Tann is running this team his way now and seems to be making wise decisions on not only the talent of players but the cap impact as well. Giving us the tools this staff should need to win while maintaining the flexibilty to go out and make more moves. So far I like his work this offseason and hope it translates into a better product on the filed for 2008 and beyond.
I get really tired of hearing people complain about the scheme, because I'm an "accept it and move forward expeditiously" type, but this is verging on ridiculous. It's not as if we had aging pieces. We just dumped two very good young players in their primes for very little. Both of these guys could easily be Pro Bowlers next season. You really have to question the wisdom. This year is going to be make or break for these guys. I don't love this trade. At this point, it's ten wins or out for these guys. -X-
Honestly, it depends on how the restructuring goes. He's apparantly re-negotiating the deal right now, so it may very well be something like 10 million. At least according to roto-world, that's at least the $3 Million option bonus (due in June, I believe) + his base salary for this year ($6.8 million). We'll see what happens.
nailed it, d rob will beast out in cincy trust that. and i agree vilma is a toss up but we know what hes like in a 4-3 while healthy especially with the DL the saints have wow. but the only big win out of this is getting rid of d-robs contract even though i totally agree like you said. hes been our best DL since mangini got here
i agree these moves should've been done last year offseason where we would've gotten more from them, but they weren't working out here and they had to be done. i dont know about vilma being a easy pro bolwer next season, i'm not sold on his knee and he would've left us next year anyway. drob also just had to go, and again i'm not sure how easy he's making a pro bowl next season. i think drob is a good player, but not worth the money he would've been due this season.
So your that upset about a linbacker that could not hack it in a 34 and a very undersized nose tackle? No one knows how well Vilma will play this year. How serious was the knee injury and will he be able to make a full comeback and play at near probowl levels? Time will tell. For him I hope so. For the Jets I hope so as well becasue it lets us swap our pick in '09 for a second or third. D-Rob? He was never the next Sapp he was supposed to be in the 43. He played well, but lacked the bulk needed in Mangini's 34. So we go out and get a big monster for a 3rd and a 5th, while getting back a 4th and a 5th. Net loss, moving down from 3rd to 4th for the right guy in the middle. D-rob is going to be 27 this season. Jenkins is 28. Its not as if we got alot older in the process. Mike T made the moves that had to be done to carry forward with the switch to the 34. 10 wins or gone? That would be about the foolish thing that could happen at this point. Lets have one staff assemble parts for three years, then run them out of town and bring in a different staff who will do the same thing. Do that 13 times in a row and we will all be bitching about the good times when we were younger like the old coots around here.
The way I read it he's upset that Mangini couldn't figure out ahead of time that moving to his scheme was going to destroy the value of the Jet's most recent high draft picks on the defensive side of the ball, and that the 3-4 Mangini has moved to apparently just sucks rocks. I could be projecting a bit here, but that's my basic argument also.
These are two guys who are very young and in their prime. I'm upset that they are so binded to a certain system that the roster needs a complete overhaul. These are guys who had shown the ability to excel in a 4-3 scheme. It boggles my mind that sticking with that scheme wasn't at least considered. Mike Tomlin was a career cover 2 coach who saw the reality when he got to Pittsburgh and chose to leave things as is. It worked out pretty well there. Moreover, Vilma is a Pro Bowl caliber linebacker, and the best we could do was a fourth rounder? Robertson is 26 and rarely misses a game. With what was left on the market, we couldn't at least get a 3? I'd rather have one 3 than a 4 and a 5. People fall in love with the idea of draft picks this time of year but in reality, a fourth rounder is going to be nothing more than a backup or special teamer. -X-
Look at what Parcells is doing in Miami. He's switching fulltime to a 3-4 this year too. DRob was never productive in the 4-3 either except for one year. That just isn't acceptable IMO. The funniest thing the whole 4-3 and 3-4 switching back and forth is that we had a 3-4 under Parcells and Groh and then when Groh left and Herm came in they hired Ted Cotrell, who was more familiar with the 3-4. So what did Herm do when we had 3-4 personnel AND a 3-4 DC? He switches to a 4-3 and takes 5 years to get the talent for it. At least we're trying to get it all by year three. I think the reason it took this long was because they really wanted Vilma to succeed in it and gave him two years and just finally realized it wasn't going to happen with him.
If those players had lived up to their draft statuses better, by making multiple pro-bowls and not getting injured or having degerative knee injuries, then they probably would have fetched us more in a trade.
Honestly can anyone really sit here and say that DRob or Vilma were good enough to build a D around? With all this talk about being better suited for the 4-3 when Mangini took over is all about Vilma & Drob who were the only two players when Mangini took over that this talk would apply to. The problem the Jets made was not sticking to a 3-4 system when Parcells and Groh ended up leaving. We would have never drafted Vilma or Robertson if that was the case. I can buy the argument that Mangini should have traded these guys last offseason when their value was higher but enough with the Mangini should have stayed with the 4-3 nonsense, that D wasn't very good either. Credit to the FO is deserved for replacing the parts that dont fit with parts that do..
1) Both are injury risks 2) Both are due Bigger contracts soon 3) How do you know they didn't consider 4-3 Heck, they run it a % of the time anyway in their FLEX defense - Didn't they toy with keeping Abe (like Parcells is going back and forth now with J Taylor) 4) Mike Tomlin had 1 decent year (like Mangini) lets see what happens in year 2 (like Mangini) before we start comparisons 5) Man Vilma is being WAY overrated around here - Guy had 1 good year as a rookie and should hav ebeen a lot better regardless of system...
Actually, we won't be on the hook for his base salary this season. The team that pays the salary will be on the hook. We will be on the hook for the option bonus, since we must accelerate it and pay it out before we are allowed to trade him and for the proprated bonus money that accelerates against the cap. I believe I saw an article that suggested that we would take a 6.8 million dollar cap hit total if we traded D-Rob right now. That would suggest that his prorated bonus hit is 3.8 million.
Because Pitt's defense has been consistently GOOD for a long time. You can't say that about the 4-3 we ran except for one year. Tomlin would have been lynched if he came in and changed a defense that's been pretty highly rated for years. In five years Herm couldn't get our defense respectable, and you wanted to stay with that defense?
