Jack of all trades, master of none. Yeah thats working well. I was a BT fan , but have now lost patience with him , he needs to go elsewhere to be excellent and prove the haters wrong.
I think a lot of you are misunderstanding our OLB needs. With Hobson likely gone this season we only have one decent OLB option in Bryan Thomas. His skill is his pass rushing ability, specifically his speed as an edge rusher. That means his ideal position is on the weak side (side without the tight end) so he doesn't have to get tied up with the tight end and can get to the quarterback as quickly as possible. Although we should definitely upgrade from Thomas by drafting Gholston, I think a more pressing need is the STRONG side OLB. The strong side (side with the tight end) OLB's job is to break off blocks from the tight end and contain the right tackle to keep the play in front of him. This requires a more physical and aggressive player who can shed blocks and hold his ground. Calvin Pace would fill THIS need perfectly. The misunderstanding in signing Pace is that people think we are picking him up to be our edge rusher when in reality, the Jets want him for the strong side position. Pace's style of play is that of a run stuffing defensive end who is very physical and can hold his ground/shed blocks at the line of scrimmage while also offering some decent pass rushing ability (6.5 sacks as a 43 strong side linebacker). He is EXACTLY what we need for the position. If you didn't know, there is a huge difference between strong and weak side for both the OLBs AND the ILBs. In my perspective, the last two seasons there were several question marks as to the specific duties of each linebacker as there was no clear cut strong or weak side line backer. There was a lot of experimenting with Hobson and Thomas to find out which position would fit their abilities just like the ILB position where there was no clear cut strong side ILB untill Harris emerged. Our current roster, under the assumption that Hobson will be gone, has no strong side OLB but has a player in Thomas that is better off on the weak side. If the Jets sign Pace, his position will immediately be solidified as the strong side OLB and we will have the option of sticking with Thomas as our weak side edge rusher or draft someone for that position. The reason the strong side OLB position is key this offseason is because we don't have anyone on roster at all to play that part and we'd be forcing Thomas to play that position if we pick up an edge rusher in the draft. Believe it or not, it's a bigger need than a pure pass rusher at this point!
I take back my post. I have smoked too much weed and um...Iunno what to say cause I'm not sure I'm right there.
Good analysis. I still like BT, and I think he could handle the strong side (long term). Last year he spent alot of the year in coverage, and in '06 he showed he can rush the passer. As the defensive talent improves, I expect alot of our guys play to their full and pretty high potential. Worked for the Ravens...look at how much better Terrell Suggs looked when Pryce and Thomas were there. He may never be an elite 3-4 DE/OLB, but I think he'll be a pretty productive one in the coming years.
you don?t really play Strong and Weak side in a 34, you play Left and Right. But since most QBs like their TEs on the right side, you?re basically right. Why does everyone come up with that he dropped in coverage-stuff. He sucked big time in coverage and didn?t create havoc in the runninggame or passrush. So what are you praising? Maybe he just had a bad year this year, we?ll find out this year, but my opinion on him right now is, that he just played his ass of to get a bigger contract, and now that he has it, keeps sucking. Reading this thread, i really think some here don?t understand what duties every LB in the 34 has, and that those require very different types of players.
Ill pass on pace something just bothers me about me about players who suddenly just turn it on during contract time.Bryan Thomas was solid in '06. But his sack total went from 8.5 to 2.5, tackle total went from 77 to 47 i just dont get it yeah he might have switched sides playing the pass more than pass-rushing but whos to say Mangini puts him in the WOLB. Maybe he is actually better suited to play that role and Mangini was preparing him to play it because it doesnt make any sense to him at WOLb in '06 then switch to SOLB in '07 then move him back WOLB in '08. I say Thomas needs to get stronger to shed those blocks becuase my money is that we pick Gholston or Groves in the draft.
Not just unheralded, they have to be "diamonds in the rough" or "sleepers" also. The last prime free agent the Jets signed to a keeper contract was Kevin Mawae.
Depends on the price. If he's cheap and we draft Gholston we will have huge depth at LB. I think he could be better than BT..
LOL so true The Jets are the only team that knows how good these players can be. Adrian Clarke, for example, is a really a great player if you look hard enough. So is Kenyon Coleman.
True...I don't know why Clarke wasn't upgraded after we saw he sucked once the real games started. There were loads of starting caliber guards out there to be signed. This is the main issue with Mangini and Tannenbaum. They're scared to make a move because they want "their" guys. They don't even have guys...they take Parcells and BB castoffs. With 15 million in cap space last offseason, how we didn't walk out with Thomas, Steinbach, and a starting RT is beyond me.
I hate paying guards too much. It just seems like a position that is easier to hit a homerun with in the draft IMHO, but thats all preferences. There are just so many above-average guards getting paid ridiculous money. Thomas was a move I was gunning hard for, but even he didn't really have a huge impact this year. The Pats defense didn't really scare too many teams. Thomas is a nice player but he didn't nearly have the impact he had in Baltimore. Suggs IMHO is a far superior player but we won't have a chance at him. Granted, Thomas would have been a huge upgrade for this defense. I can't wait to see (hopefully) Gholston or Groves in green and white next year. I think both of those guys will be studs in this league and hopefully our OLB situation will be solid for years to come. I haven't given up on BT yet. The starting RT thing was a no-brainer. I thought once they cut Clement, I thought he was gone. Then they resigned him... I mean, other than being very tall, he doesn't have much going for him. The Bills paid a crapload on their O-line and their offense still blew chunks last year, though they did have a rookie QB. To quote Maroney, I'd hate to blow our wad on some above-average OL. If the Jets spend wisely, they can get some very solid lineman. This is a pretty good offseason for lineman.
Is the tongue-in-cheekness of my posts really that hard to spot over the internetz? BTW: We didn't even sign Clement 'til the latter part of FA...because Colombo chose the Cowboys for less money and Andrews would have cost us a second rounder.
How about EVER. Whenever somebody makes a comment about our CS/FO you tend to interpret it as this big sweeping statement, and question its validity. When someone says 4-12 is not acceptable, you take it as, "Why weren't the Jets Super Bowl contenders this year?" and go on to bash the original poster... When someone says we rarely, if ever, go out and sign prime FAs, you take it as, "Why don't we go out and break the bank on every top-notch Fa every offseason?" and go on to bash the original poster... People aren't asking for our FO to be irresponsible like Washington's, but we're looking for them to make the big moves necessary to improve the team, instead of putting all of our eggs into the "sleeper FA" basket.... Acquiring/paying guys like Kenyon Coleman, Bryan Thomas, David Barrett, Reggie Tongue, Aaron Beasley, Kimo vonOelhoffen, Curtis Conway, Justin McCareins, Kevan Barlow, Derrick Blaylock, etc, etc, as the Jets have over the years, with little to no legitimate, young, proven commodities mixed in is the recipe for mediocrity that we have been following since Bill Parcells left....
The Jets entire free agent strategy since 2001 has been flawed by the premise that you lock up aging or injured stars longterm, you let early prime players who are not yet stars but are headed that way walk, and you sign two unheralded or journeymen players a year to prop the roster. Oh, and of course you never look at a top rank free agent from another team, they'd be too expensive. What that does is to let the air out of the balloon slowly until you have an inert mass of rubber lying on the ground with people stepping all over it.
The Jets are the only team that knows how good these players can be. Adrian Clarke, for example, is a really a great player if you look hard enough. So is Kenyon Coleman. I believe Kenyon Coleman led the NFL in tackles for defensive linemen??? He had a great year...owned!!
That was not because he was good --> his job was not necessarily to make tackles (especially not 4+ yards down field as he did so often, though the effort is a nice attribute)... He made a lot of tackles because he chased a lot of plays down from behind and made tackles 4+ yards down the field. His job, as a DE, was not fulfilled satisfactorily. He rarely collapsed the pocket and/or got pressure on the QB on passing downs. He got blown off the ball consistently on running downs (as did our whole DL, save for Ellis, who struggled for other reasons) He did not perform anywhere near the expectations the CS set for him when they acquired him from Dallas. In my eyes, Coleman would be better suited in that role he had in Dallas, as a spot player who can come in and make plays simply by being a high-motor, high-energy guy, fresh off the bench. As an every down player, he's mediocre
