If Eiland is all he's cracked up to be, Bruney, Ohlendorf, Ramirez, and possibly Veras, Farnsworth, and Hawkins can make a formidable bullpen. Plus, there's the wild card of Moose or Kennedy spending time in the pen, we have 6 starters going into camp. As dwalsh's article pointed out, the Yankees have a plethora of depth. That's not a bad problem.
100 names you should know for the 2008 season http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-02-06-names-to-know_N.htm Yankees on the list: 2. Joba Chamberlain 21. Ian Kennedy 25. Shelly Duncan 30. Edwar Ramirez 87. Jonathan Albaladejo I'm very excited to see what all 5 players can do in a full season. I'm looking forward to see Albaladejo, frankly because I never got the chance to see him when he pitched a few games for the Nats'. He's a big kid, so it will interesting to see how he fairs.
Rob Neyer's Top 10 CFers over the next 5 years: 1. B.J. Upton 2. Curtis Granderson 3. Grady Sizemore 4. Hunter Pence 5. Chris Young 6. Carlos Beltran 7. Melky Cabrera 8. Felix Pie 9. Josh Hamiliton 10. Jay Bruce Cabrera over Bruce? No Ellsbury? Odd list.
is that a joke, Veras Farns Bruney and Hawkins are garbage, the bullpen will be decent in the beginning of the season with joba in it but once joba makes the switch to the rotation, our bullpen will be huting
Veras, Farnsworth, and Hawkins might be garbage (I'll wait and see what happens with a great pitching coach and a manager that knows what he's doing), but to call Bruney "garbage" is just stupid.
oh I forgot we got eiland as a pitching coach...now I feel much better about our mish mosh bullpen....you guys are being a bit overly optimistic....its borderline comical...but hey, I hope youre all right and Im dead wrong
Here's the thing. We know Farnsworth has talent. He is just mentally unstable. A lot like Big Unit. If guys like that are mentally in the game, you've got yourself a shutdown pitcher. The question is, can Eiland bring that out? My guess is that he has a far greater chance than Gator. Who knows with Veras? The organization is excited about him, so why shouldn't I be? I'm pretty sure they know better than I do. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Hawkins have a tiny body of work from which to judge him? 10P already spoke about Bruney a few times, so no need for me to repeat it. Everyone is ignoring Moose. Is he a decent 2 or 3 starter? No. Could he do something out of the pen? Who knows? I'm willing to wait it out. Does anyone remember Ohlendorf? Chase Wright pitched okay before he collapsed in Boston. Who knows if he can contribute in the pen. Igawa supposedly made progress under Eiland toward the end of the year in the minors. How about Cheeseburger Ramirez? He showed some serious flash last year. All I'm saying is, it's not all doom and gloom. Right now, we haven't the slightest clue how our pen is going to shake out, for better or for worse. How about we at least wait until the end of March before we go judging guys?
How do you guys know that Eiland is this pitching genius that you guys are making him out to be? He is just as much of an unknown as the rotation.
We don't. We can only go on the praise he's received from numerous sources in the past, including players he's coached. He's also well-liked by the young guns. I didn't see too many guys actually give a crap when Guidry spoke to them last year. Everything is a "what if" in sports anyway. Why this year it is suddenly en vogue to wonder why some Yankees fans are upbeat is beyond me. This team isn't composited worse than the one that made the playoffs last year. Wang and Pettitte are back. Rather than Clemens and Igawa, we have Hughes and Chamberlain. Rather than a carousel for the 5th starter, we have Kennedy or Moose. The only positional change will be at first. I was a Phillips/Mienky fan, but I don't see too much of an issue at first. The pen, except for Vizcaino, is either the same, or possibly better than last year. It was crap last year, and almost surely isn't worse. As I said, I don't think it's all gloom and doom.
Isn't Joba going to the rotation? If so then the pen is much worse than it was last year. They were terrible before he was brought up to stabilize it somewhat. I think it is very reasonable for all the doom and gloom regarding the Yanks, they have more question marks this year than in any other year since the dynasty started. With the amount of potentially good to great teams in the AL I really think with the amount of question marks there is a realistic possibility that they are on the outside looking in when the postseason starts this year. I am still completely shocked & thankful that they didnt make more of an effort to land Santana. It really is mind boggling to me that this is the year they chose to get cheap with money and/or prospects it would have taken to get him. They have a huge need for a pitcher of his stature & is still young enough to make it worth giving up the prospects it would have taken to get him.
Sure, this could be a down year. But that's already been established. As for Joba, I don't see his moving from pen to rotation as that big a deal. There are other guys to work the pen. It's a matter of getting guys into the right spots now. Sure, it could be an utter failure. So what? It's one more title we didn't win. I'll deal with that. As for Santana, it's easy to say that when you basically stole him from the Twins. What is the limit you would have put up though? Ours was our future starting rotation. We weren't willing to sacrifice almost 10 years of starts for another inflated contract. There isn't a Yankee fan alive who wouldn't have loved to get Santana. At the same time, there aren't a lot who were willing to part with as much as Hank Steinbrenner was.
I agree that hawkins only has a tiny body of work to judge....13 years of 4.5 era's is nothing.....his real stats will shake out over the next 32 years. Eiland is going to come in and help farnsworth- he may be unstable, he also throws a straight ball...straight as an arrow... moose in the pen- knowing what a team guy he is, im sure he;ll be thrilled to come out of the pen- plus hes been a starter for how many years now? im sure he has what it takes to switch to the pen at this stage in his career- this pussy couldnt pitch a day early or a day late from his normal rest and now hes gonna be an effective pen guy? ohlendorf- how many major league innings does he have? the pen is a shitpile. a total shitpile. if this was the red sox pen every yankee fan on this board would be rolling on the floor laughing at it...lets be honest
As far as Hawkins, I said correct me if I was wrong. I don't even know anything about the guy. All I remember is that he had a low number of innings last year, didn't he? I don't know if Farnsworth can be helped or not. I want to wait and see. He's on the team anyway, why freak out about it? I think Moose will be in the rotation for most of the year, to be quite honest. He'll get a spot and one of the spots will have one of the kids rotating out during the year to preserve them. Ohlendorf has no work to judge. Neither did Joba. Neither did Ramirez. Hell, Cheeseburger was even out of baseball. Another wait-and-see. Yes, this pen could be a total shitpile. Or it could be amazing. Who the hell knows? Does it matter? Do you really expect the Yankees to win it all this year? If we got Santana, would you have thought we could win it all? What does a big splash do? Randy Johnson. Kenny Rogers. Jason Giambi. Roger Clemens. Johnny Damon. Bobby Abreu. Hideki Matsui. Lots of big names. How many titles have they brought us this century?
I dont see how moving Joba out of the pen is not a big deal. All the kid did last year was stabalize a bullpen that was uttery atrocious before he got there. During the regulat season at least he was far and away the best reliever on the team and that is including the best reliever of all time in RIvera. That is not going to be as easy to replace as you make it sound. As for Santana, I have already been on record as saying I would have given up any combination of prospects it took to get him to Shea. For the Yankees I dont see how they would have been sacrificing 10 years of starts. You can only hope and pray that at some point Hughes becomes even close to the pitcher that Santana already is and he is only 6 years older than him. Even if you had to include Kennedy as well(probably wouldn't have had to though) he projects to be a #3 starter at best, with the resourses the Yanks have those kind of pitchers are a dime a dozen, same for Cabrera. I think sooner rather than later yankee fans will realize what a mistake it was to not make more of an effort to get him.
2000 - 87.7 IP, 3.39 ERA 2001 - 51.3 IP, 5.96 ERA 2002 - 80.3 IP, 2.13 ERA 2003 - 77.3 IP, 1.86 ERA 2004 - 82.0 IP, 2.63 ERA 2005 - 56.3 IP, 3.83 ERA 2006 - 60.3 IP, 4.48 ERA 2007 - 55.3 IP, 3.42 ERA So if we ignore 4 years when he was one of the best relievers in the AL, as well as 2 when he was good in the NL... then yeah, I guess he's a 4.5 ERA type of guy. Perhaps. Wang's sinker was more of a two-seamer until he worked with Eiland and Nardi. And the best year of Farnsworth's career was when Girardi was his catcher. He'd be a long relief guy. Not sure why that matters, but whatever. Boston's pen looked pretty terrible going into last season. It wasn't until the unknown Okajima, with help from a new pitching coach, became one of the most dominant relievers in the AL.
^ youre not sure why that matters dude? cut the stupidity. if youre not sure why that even matters than talking to youis a waste of time.
Going into last season, Hideki Okajima had never thrown an inning in the United States, and Mike Timlin is in the top 10 in games appeared for his career. Which pitcher do you think Boston would rather have going into this season? Let the young players have an opportunity. Disregarding them due to lack of inexperience is dangerous to say the least.
Mariano Rivera's career ERA as a starter is 5.94. Hawkins' ERA as a reliever is MUCH lower than 4.68.
and how mnay okajima's have come down the pike in the last ohhh 20 years? is it more common for a guy to debut in the majors as so-so or worse or to come in like gangbusters? thats why my comment about his being a rookie is relevant
