There's a subterranean world below the surface of "the bottom". Scientists are drilling the ocean floor just for us. We've yet to reach the earth's core, so your optimistic outlook sickens me, quite frankly.
Biggs, what is the objective evidence that our owner doesn't care? I think you're a rational Jets fan, so let me know what you think. I think too many fans -- not you necessarily -- equate a meddlesome owner as an owner that cares. It didn't really do much for the Yankees throughout the 1980s and half the 1990s. In fact, you could argue that the suspension of Steinbrenner at the beginning of the 1990s was the best thing to happen to the organization, as Gene Michael was able to go forward with a plan that bore the fruits of subsequent success (Pettite, Rivera, Jeter, Posada -- all home grown). On the football front, Snyder's "caring" has produced instability, poor decision making, and no more success than the Jets have had since his arrival. Jones has three Super Bowls, I grant you, but how much of that was a great hire in Jimmy Johnson vs. Jones' foresight or success as an owner. I don't equate W. Johnson to Wellington Mara in any great sense, but from the perspective of enabling his designated management team to run the show, I think you can seem similarities. I think of Leon Hess as more indifferent than I do Johnson, as Hess became involved about three years before he died with the hiring of Parcells. And when he did become involved, it was more knee-jerk decision making -- Coslett, Carroll, Kotite. Whether it was misguided thinking or not is subject to debate, but the WSS was certainly an endeavor to think differently about the future of the team than many owners have shown. He spent his money there, which was ultimately a waste of cash. I think the current administrator is 1-1 (one good year, one bad year). The biggest mistake -- again, I don't think you're advocating here -- would be to add more instability to the organization by changing things again without giving the management team more time to implement its plan. There have been missteps, but some decided victories too. I'd like to see Woody's plan if that's what you want to call it have more time to succeed or fail before we cast off this team and declare the team bankrupt of an owner that cares.
Ah such a pretty lament. But always remember things can get worse like going another 0-39 just like we have done up to now. Anyway if I did the math correctly around 20 years ago you became an adult. I will let slide the years from when you were 7 to 21. Now starting when you turned 21 the NYJs are like 0 for 20 in winning a World Championship. Can you please explain to us IYHO why that is? Can you further explain why Kraft & his organization is 4-7 in attaining the SB in the last 7 years while Woody & his organization is 0-7 in that same 7 year period in attaining the SB? Also please advise us all who you prefer to be our owner Woody or Kraft?
I don't think Woody has a plan at all and I don't want to rehash it but I don't think the WSS had a thing to do with the Jets, it was a personal financial sweatheart deal that was to good to be true for him and of course was since he ended up being used like a tool by both Pataki and Bloomberg as the chump in a failed Olympic bid for the promise of convention business for the stadium. For all the knocking of Steinbrener CBS ran the Yankees into the ground, I think he bought the Yankees for under 10 million dollars? For all his medeling, he has built real value to the team with very little help of MLB. Part of that value is having a competitive team on the field but a lot of it had to do with the way the Yankees have been marketed and positioned which has allowed the money to keep flowing. He also was smart enough to turn the club over to very talented baseball people who he paid the highest salaries in MLB to run the team. He also spent a ton on player development even though in large part he used those players as chips in trade. I really don't see how hiring two inexperienced guys to run the football operations who in turn hired two HC with minimal resumes to run the team on the field is a plan?
The Raiders suck from owner to waterboy. Anyway, I'm not making excuses for the Jets, I'm just saying... this is a bad situation but only because of who is in the SB... if it were even one other team on either side it wouldn't be nearly as bad. It's rock bottom only because of circumstances outside of the Jets control.
As a Jets fan since the Titan days, I can't say that this is absolute rock bottom, but there is something different about it. From the perspective of sheer lack of competitiveness on an extended basis, the 70's were the worst. Being a season ticket holder, I remember the many years at Shea Stadium when they had to play their first 3 or 4 games on the road and, by the time they played their first home game, they were hopelessly behind the Dolphins. But what sustained us then was that it wasn't that long ago that they'd won a Super Bowl (I acknowledge how much worse this is for younger fans who didn't get to see them win.) What feels worse about this is that this year represents the latest in a series of false starts. It felt like they were going in the right direction under Michaels, then he imploded and led to the disappointment of the Walton years, including the terribly disappointing 85 and 86. It felt like they were building something under Parcells, but that collapsed. It felt like they were building something under Herm, but that collapsed too. And the optimism of 06 has led to, yet once again, a team seriously short on talent and very far from the Super Bowl. All of these failures are a stark contrast to the ongoing excellence of the Patriots and the stable organization of the Giants who, while they aren't dominant, manage to get to the Super Bowl every few years. Being 54 years old, this is the first year that I am coming to confront the possibility that I may never see them in a Super Bowl in my lifetime. I hope I'm wrong...but this year is a deeper pessimism.
If you look around all major sports (not just the NFL), the largest trend is a much larger emphasis on drafting and developing young talent. You'll notice franchises like the Red Sox, Yankees, Pats, Spurs, Ducks, and whoever else you can think of....good franchise...solid, smartly run, always keeping an eye on the future as well as the present franchises...they don't go out and make big, splashy FA signings. The Yankees of '96-'00 took years to build and develop, most of it done while Steinbrenner wasn't allowed to touch the team in its baseball operations. The Pats have been building this team 18-0 team since '00. The Red Sox and Yankees have put a huge emphasis on developing talent in the farm system to bolster their major league rosters now and in the future. The Spurs built themselves around Tim Duncan and drafted guys like Parker and Ginobli to compliment him. THEN they signed veteran FAs to work with those guys. To call Mangini and Tanny inexperienced is just...wrong. Mangini was a big HC candidate and was seen as one of the better young HC prospects out there that offseason. He was highly coveted, and his boss was pissed to see him go. He came in after working under the philosophies of one of the most efficient, creative, and proactive coaches in NFL history. Does it suck that he had never been a HC before? Only to people with an instant gratification fetish. If you look at something beyond our 2007 W-L record and the loss of a mediocre LG who wanted more money, these guys have shown they are far from incompetent. Inexperienced? Sure, but so was every great businessman, coach, GM, and player at one point or another. Competitive and great franchises don't just...pop up. They take years of work, and to achieve continuity requires even more work. Beyond this seasons W-L record, I have seen a ton of new, different, but intelligent ideas introduced to this franchise by our new GM and HC. Spending money on a big name FA will probably come, I just don't see why everyones so desperate for one now. It's not like it would put us over the top, or closes any gaps significantly. I'd rather see some good drafts, smart signings, and then *maybe* a big name FA signing. I've seen the first two both offseasons, and I expect it to continue until Mangini and Tanny have built the team they want it to be built.
Since November, I came to realization that the Patriots were "god's team" and may never lose an NFL game ever again...and employed the slogan "It cant get any worse". This was the year, after being subject to so many heartbreaks from this franchise..that i dont even enjoy other NFL games anymore. I dont consider myself a football fan. Who wants to see Brady get sucked off by the media 24/7 anyway? I'm a JETS fan...and all i want from this point forward is a championship. And right now..within that goal "It can't get any worse".
I always thought our permanent address as Jet Fans was "Rock Bottom". Hell, as long as a New York team is in it, its not really all that bad today. Look at it this way folks, we could be watching the Patriots vs. the Chiefs.. Enjoy the day guys!!
I agree with most of what you wrote here. I had absolutely no problem with the Jets hiring Mangini even though he had no previous NFL experience as a head coach. He was very good in 2006. The problem I now have with him is the egregious coaching errors he made in 2007, most notably the garbage at the end of the 1st half in the Giants game and the lunacy at the end of the Browns game. 2007 was utter garbage. Thankfully, it is over. 2008's going to be the rubber year. Hopefully, 2007 was a fluke and Mangini gets the team back to the playoffs and he follows that up with more playoff berths and he becomes a great coach. The Jets don't need to make any huge moves in FA. I am not for the acquisition of Asante Samuel. The draft has to be good and they have to make some smart middling signings. No Nate Clements astronomical signings, please.
It will be right up there, though, with these games- 1940 NFL Championship at Washington Bears 73, Redskins 0 9-16-50 at Philadelphia Browns 35, Eagles 10 (in their first NFL game, the Browns walloped the reigning-NFL champions)
Three Super Bowl championships to one. At least the Raiders have a better history. Al Davis also is nearing completion of his bucket list. Woody Johnson hasn't even written a rough draft of his bucket list yet. It's a rough period right now, but Davis is going to go bye-bye in the not too distant future and the Raiders will be back.
if you learn not to feel, and learn not to care.. your life is pretty good and ok Learn not to feel anything- like a sociopath, and your life is never sad.
This is bad right now because the gap between the Jets and the Patriots keeps getting wider, but it was worse in the '70s, when the Jetsn weren't even remotely competitive and there was no hope. I'm disappointed, but its much easier to turn it around now.
Based on this assessment, every owner in the NFL is an abject failure except for Kraft, Rooney, Irsay and Glazer. And Rooney, Irsay and Glazer pale in comparison to Kraft. Should the other 28 owners sell their teams to please their fan base?
Good post Italian........I am not sure if this is the bottom, but it clearly is a low point. You say we have found the rocks at the bottom. Could be...........I just hope we don't find a way to go subterranean and start sucking magma. Even though I do not necessarily like the Giants I absolutely want to puke every time I think of the Patriots I hate them so much. For me it is the lesser of 2 evils. I will be ill if the Pats win, perhaps for a couple of days, but yet, I could relish, if for an instant, if the Giants beat the Pats. Their perfect little season must be blemished and stained like Monica Lewinski's dress. Who better to spurt on them than the G-men. I hope by some miracle the G-men pound the crap out of them today; it would be one of the greatest things I ever saw. The only sadness would come from the fact that we aren't the ones inflicting the punishment. I will be a marginal Giants supporter for 4 hours today and then I come back into the fold of Green. Please forgive me..................
