So you want to skimp on the most important position on the field. Brilliant. Again with the rebuilding plan, the goal is to win next year, period. That's when the team needs to be "ready". Name me a veteran QB who will fit this team and offense better than Chad does. Names. You said there are "several", give me one guy who is an upgrade that we can get. You want no competition for the job and a simplified offense? Why? What is the benefit for the team in that? Sounds to me like you're more interested in coddling one guy than the success of the team in 2008.
When you rebuild the team and Mgmt knows it is a work in progress that takes years not a season. We coddle Chad and Make excuses for him not being able to make the basic throws expected of an Nfl Qb but can not give a first time starter time to adjust on a horrible team. We have given Chad Six years how much coddling do you want?
Herm, you and I foundementally disagree with the goal for next year. This team has not won period since the 1968 season. The fact that the NFL or Baseball and Basketball have devised a scheme to allow mediocrity into their playoffs as a revenue producer doesn't make 9 and 10 win seasons the goal period. Football is a 53 man game plus a large coaching contigency and talent evaluators not to mention competent management to just run the business. Goals of just winning period next year is not how you get to a SB and sustain excellence over any period of time. Chad sustained excellence for 3/4 of a season in 02 that's how tough the job is. If you think holding on to yesterdays 10 win season and Wild Card kick out is what we should be building to than yes I agree by all means get a couple of 35 year old lineman and put Chad behind it and see if he can beat Miami twice, Buffalo once and figure out the other 6 or 7 wins to get us in. Todd Collins who was far better than Pennington this year signed with the Redskins for two years for 2.5 Million dollars that's 3.55 million less than Pennington will make next year. Collins who is a career back up was better this year than Chad was last year. Damon Huard was better last year than Chad was last year. Chad is one of the most over paid athletes in NY.
The only real reasons I see to get rid of Pennington are as follows: 1.The Free agent QB market is terrible, and Pennington would be near the top of the list of available passers were the Jets to put him on the market, possibly garnering a fairly decent draft pick for his services. A team like Chicago, Minnesota, Carolina, or Kansas City could really use a Chad Pennington. 2.The minute Clemens struggles, the fans are going to be begin calling for Pennington. While Clemens is a work in progress, the fans know that however limited Pennington is, he's been a winner in the past and will move the ball efficiently down the field. We don't need that in our locker room. I wouldn't say either Collins or Huard was better than Pennington this year, and that's with just a short look at the statistics. Collins played in an offense he's been playing in for nearly his entire career and acquitted himself quite well until he had to play a big game. He had a solid, yet unspectacular running game. Huard was awful. Pennington seemed limited by his ankle, which made his arm strength look even more awful. He didn't look terrible once he came back, and I'm sure the time off helped him out. -X-
I never said 10 wins is the goal, but you have to get in the playoffs first to take a shot. The difference between that and 12 wins, or the first round of the playoffs and the Super Bowl is usually a kick here, a break there, etc. But if you're constantly committed to 3 years from now, you always have an excuse for being bad, as long as you're young it's ok, right? Saying we have not won period since 1968 is also a champ-like, oversimplification of the matter. We've been back a few times, again didn't get the breaks, the kick, the weather, or whatnot, that's how it goes. But the league doesn't lend itself anymore to long rebuilding periods. Coaches don't last that long, players leave, you just don't have a couple years to waste hoping your 2nd round QB turns into Brett Favre. If these guys were using the "rebuilding from scratch" idea we wouldn't have gone 10-6 in their first year. Now coming off 4-12, you think they will be content with another one just so we can get Clemens reps and hope it all works out in the end? And what if it doesn't? You're not in reality. I'm all for giving Clemens another (third) shot at securing the job, but you need to have another guy who can step in and win for you if he doesn't come through or gets hurt. If you want to bank that on Huard, be my guest. Collins isn't an option, so you've still given me nobody viable as a replacement.
This is the Chad argument I have. If you replace him with Brady on the Patriots they are not undefeated and they do not get to the Superbowl. Even if he had that talent he could still not finish the deal.
Forgetting the few kicks the weather, etc., etc. tell me what 2 year stretch of excellence where this team was a real competitor for a SB outside of 68 and 69. Saying getting in gives you a shot is more an oversimplification than Champs position. Champ at least recoginizes that the goal isn't beating 9 crappy teams on the schedule and hoping we get a lucky bounce against one or two other teams or that Dave Wanstadt will be coaching the Dolphins when they go into NE with a two score lead for the division title and decides to put the ball into Jay Fiedlers hands instead of Ricky Williams's
In 1981 and 82 we were right there, in 85 and 86 we were right there, 98 and going into 99 until Vinny blew out his achilles we were right there. Even in this decade we were one very makable kick from the AFC championship game in 2004-05. But again, to get there you have to be in the playoffs. You'd think if you're a Jet fan you've seen enough of these 4-12, 6-10s to understand that it's not a given to get there and take your shot.
I couldn't care less who the QB is next year. Ideally I would want my franchise QB starting next year , and has already been said, if that is Clemens then he has a long long way to go. Concentrate on all the other important stuff like building a wall on both sides of the ball , that would be my 08/09 season. Draft the future franchise QB of this team in 09/10 season. Realistically challenge season 10/11.
I will agree the if Schotty ends up at the Ravens we can safely rule them out of play on trading for Chad.
The 81 and 82 team like the unsuccessful 85 and 86 teams were built over time. The only team that was put together quickly was the 98 team and because 98 was the only year we got great QB play with a QB who threatened the entire field the remnants of that team which collapsed totally in 05 never really was a serious team of excellence again. It made a few playoff runs but it was never a great team or a serious SB contender. Out of all your examples the only real two year team that actually got to the finals was the 81 and 82 team. The 82 Team which did challenge for a SB was a 5 year project built around a new QB and HC after unloading Namath who was toast much like Pennington is now. It took Michaels 4 years to get us to a respectable team in 81 and than a real run in 82. That team was built and took it's lumps. 85 and 86 were also the product of unloading the QB and making a change and was an extension of the team that Michaels built. The idea of win now period is your obsession and the reality is in our entire history we have had one win now team built 98. Every other solid Jets team and there certainly weren't many were built around young QB's with the exception of Parcells who got one great year out of Vinny. Chad doesn't have anything resembling Vinny's talent in 98, Namath in 68 or even Todd in 82 or OBrien in 85 and 86 in him at this point and they weren't good enough. In this league you have to build SB teams. We aren't likely to get another staff like we hand in 98 and another talent like Vinny to be put in that position again and Chad and this staff certainly aren't good enough.
The difference is that Walt Michaels built that team in a completely different era, 30 years ago, when you could do that. If this were 1977 I'd be all for it, but by the time you get all your pieces in place, guys now won't be there. There was no free agency, you could keep Gastinueau, Lyons and Klecko around while Todd learned the ropes and the O line came together. The Walton team was the same team, really, just a change at QB. You can't do that now--wait three years for KC to figure it out and guys like Rhodes and Harris or whomever will be leaving. Parcells did it fast because A-he had to in post-free agency, B-he's smart and C-he got lucky getting Vinny off the scrap heap. Yes, you can build a good team over time, but as management you don't have the lifespan Walt Michaels had. If you remember, even back then they were calling for his head at 0-3 in 1981, they turned it around just in time. So nowadays you have to win as you go. We're building a good D, we have two young O-linemen, we need more, but you have to still try to win. If you don't and you're the coach or GM, you're gone. It's easy for fans to sit here and say we should do it like Walt did 30 years ago, but it's not our asses out the door if it doesn't work. That's not my rules or my obsession, either, that's the reality of the NFL in 2008.
Wrong argument. Put him on the Vikings where there is a good defense and a good running game and they go deep into the playoffs. That's the correct argument to make with Pennington.
Put him on the vikings and the stuff 8 in the box and make him throw to his sub par Wr tandem. Stacking the line can stop anybody. How is it a wrong argument to put Chad on the best offensive team in the league and you all as admit he could not make the super bowl. The pats have one of the best Defenses and all around offenses and he can't win with them so why do you want him in the Nfc? Because it's weaker?
You Guys Aren't Being Realistic... Who is less expensive than CP in terms of (a) signing bonus, (b) salary, (c) accuracy and consistency ratings, (d) learning curve on the Jet's Offense, (d) learning curve on relationships with the receivers, (e) team respect, (f) coaches' respect? All of these issues have to be well surpassed before Tannenbaum should even consider changing his existing bottom line. This is ESPECIALLY TRUE, in light of the major transformation needed in the OL coaching, the strength coaching, and the OL talent itself that needs to happen YESTERDAY. Let's deal with the biggest problems first, then sweat the small stuff.
The reality of the NFL is coaches get recyled rinse and repeat. Excellence has to be built over time, there are no real short cuts. It doesn't matter if it's 30 years ago or 30 minutes ago you can't build a solid foundation to compete at a high level without patience. Most NFL teams are not successful, most NFL teams are not competing for a SB year after year, most NFL teams are mediocre cannon fodder for the 2 or 3 real contenders. Walt Michaels was a very good HC who was fired for a drinking problem and management wrongly trying to keep Joe Walton in the fold. He was one of the best HC this team ever had. He would have survived and the team would have done much better with him had he not falling apart personally.
I'll sign on here. Walt Michaels is still the best Jets coach I have ever seen guide a Jet's team over a period of 5+ years. I did not get to see the Weeb Ewbank Jets of the late 60's and I'm sure my opinion would be different if I had.
