We are talking about 2007 since all want to slay KC for his performance. This year he has produced a better win total than chad. My point is that he was given a chance because CP didn't produce wins "THIS YEAR". Threw away games "This Year". Posters can throw around all the stats they want but CP played his way to the bench. That's the reality. It's time to see what the nrew kid has and one thing he does have over CP is youth because all the chad backers in the locker room are gone. The locker room likes KC and the new wave jets are in effect.
If I'm not mistaken, Vinny was in his 40's in 03 and basically done much like he was in 02 which is why Chad got to start. He didn't actually win the job in training camp, Vinny had to convince Herm he was done and than went out and he proved it. Chad before his shoulder surgery and after Vinny's achiles injury and being an old statue was better than Vinny no doubt that's why Chad got the job in 02. When you say we had the same team in 02, 03 as 04, I wonder if you really are a Jets fan? Didn't the Redskins take Coles, Randi Thomas, John Hall and Chad Morton from us before 03? Wasn't Chrebet hurt most of the 03 season and didn't Kevin Swayne and Curtis Conway get a lot of time at WR in 03? Wasn't 03 the last year for both Mo Lewis and Marvin Jones and didn't both of them have a big tail off from 02 to 03 in their play which lead to neither one of them being offered a deal? And didn't the emergence of DRob in 04 who was basically terrible in 03 plus the addition of Vilma in 04 make a huge difference in our D? Martin who had a decent year in 03 was better in both 02 and 04 because we had better OL in both years with Thomas at guard in 02 and Kendall in 04.
Clemens gets all of 2008, to take his lumps, to develop, to grow. But I'll tell you this.. I wouldn't trade Chad unless I'm bowled over. You need two competent QBs to win in this league. Chad's presence can only aid in Clemens' development because he can pick Chad's brain etc. However, part of me wants the Jets to facilitate Chad's desire to start. He's been a good guy during his stay so its tricky.
Guys come and go and get hurt every year, it's the NFL. Vinny continued to play a few years after that, up until this year, so no he wasn't "done". You guys love to throw "done" around and it's obvious a lot of you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Just like Chad, NFL coaches continue to put them in games, and in my estimation NFL coaches > morons on the Internet. And yes, I'm a Jet fan.
Right, we are on page 5 of this forum and still arguing who is better. Find a backup for KC, if CP wants to stay, great. But, man it's time to move on and see what this kid has for a full season. Why not!!! We wasted 2 to 3 years to see if Chads arm would get any better..
LOL I figure why not respond to this seriously as joking probably would not work with you. If you can go back to any of my posts and see where I said Chad has a "noodle arm" or any stupid catch phrase like that and/or where I say Kellen Clemens is a no doubt sure fire starter in this league.................................................... I will apologize for the personal affront that I posted earlier today. No matter that it had no insult or anything of that nature, that in your mind pissed you off. I will also not post on this site for one month. Go ahead find where I ever called him a noodle arm, said anything about his wife/kids etc. Nope I think he is done as an NFL Qb and for all the negatives you see with KC that are real, there are just as many if not more with Chad. Talk about an embarrassment of a game with KC vs. KC that is cool and you are right. However, it is equally an embarrassment that a veteran QB was so piss poor at the end of the Giants, Philly, Cincinnati, Tennessee games etc. etc. That however is conveniently forgotten in these arguments. It is all black and white with the people here that love Chad and somehow think he is Dan Marino reincarnated. I happen to think his ship has sailed and the Jets are better off moving on. Does that make me a hater? I guess in your eyes. I respect what he did as the starter and the toughness he exhibited. I think he is done and that he is shot physically. KC is a young QB with 7 starts on his resume. If he wins the starting job in 2008 then he deserves a full year with an NFL quality line, WR's that do not drop the ball consistently etc. etc. If you are sick of the negative Chad threads maybe you should realize that he is among the least physically talented QBs' in the NFL. It is nothing personal. I have no earthly idea why you have to see that as an insult. Yeah he has all the required intangibles. It is the tangibles where he is weak. It is a fact of life, the good with the bad. Just like I think KC should be given a full year behind center, I will not slice my wrists if and when there are 50 threads that say he sucks. I can care less if someone signs up on this site and starts a .......... OMG KC sucks thread. It will happen 5 times a week maybe even more if he struggles wek to week next year provided he wins the starting job I know you find this hard to believe but there are those that think KC should be the starter and do not hate Chad at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive. I think the teams future is better served looking elsewhere, moving on. Take that for what it is worth.
Yea and the Chad supporters want to waste another year with him at the helm. Chad has reached his peak and it is not good enough. Even if we had a good defense and all the weapons in place on offense #10 does not have the talent to win at the Nfl Level anymore. The league has read the book on him and his time has come and gone.
To be fair, two of Chad's games were against the Pats. No way would we have won those with Kellen in there. The whole argument about W/L records for the QB's is stupid anyway. The whole team sucked. We beat the Dolphins twice, and KC who has a worse offense than us, and that's hard to do. The only decent team we beat was Pittsburgh, and they've dropped off drastically since losing to us anyway.
There's just nothing much this guy gives you to like. He has a big arm but he wasn't very accurate. He's in his second season in the offense and he can't make decisions. His inaccuracy looks to be a product of nerves, but part of the reason he was sacked so much is because he's in love with hanging on to the football. When you look at his collegiate career there's nothing to really say it's just a matter of adjustment. He wasn't a spectacular collegiate quarterback and the only time he was very, very successful was when he was placed in a spread offense that inflates stats. Guys like Drew Brees displayed decision making, accuracy, and maturity in college that made you think they'd go on to be successful. I'd even give Phillip Rivers that same credit. I looked at the scouting reports and the game logs on Clemens and I thought to myself "there's a nice backup quarterback." I hope I'm wrong, but he didn't give me much reason to think otherwise. Next year will be interesting to say the least. -X-
"You guys" Who are "you guys"? I have no problem being called either a moron or someone who doesn't know what the F he is talking about by by someone on the Internet who doesn't know what the F he is talking about and is probably a moron on the Internet.
I'm sorry but I'm from the train of thought where 2nd round draft picks don't get that kind of luxury. Maybe somebody can help me with this but I can't remember the last QB drafted beyond the 1st round that a team decided to allow a full year to "take his lumps, to develop, to grow" and had success with this. Especially after playing so poorly their first year as a starter. I guess Brett Favre is a good example but he at least played decent his first year and showed flashes brilliance. This situation reminds me so much of the Browning Nagle situation, it's eery.
I really believe this Clemens "bad company" stuff is ridiculous. I did some checking, and looked at the ratings of several QB's in the first year of substantial work. -Donovan McNabb played in 12 games his first year, had a QB rating of 60.1, actually lower than Clemens. - Peyton Manning played 16 games, had a rating of 71.2 (28 interceptions to boot) - Drew Brees played 16 games in 2002 and had a 76.9 rating, ironically in the 11 games he played in 2003 his rating was 67.5 - Brett Favre had the same siutation, a stellar 85.3 rating in his first 15 games, but followed it up with a 72.2 the following season in 16 games. Looks to me that Clemens is in some pretty good company
This is why threads like this hold so little water... This isn't baseball, where stats can often times tell the story.. In football, you can always find a statistic that will prove a point you intend to make. I can guarantee you that I could pull up some situational stat, that Tom Brady, Ryan Leaf and Akili Smith all have in common. That doesn't mean it's at all significant... The truth of the matter is that Clemens' 7 games in which he saw significant action this year may or may not be indicative of his future as a QB. Only time, not worthless statistics, will tell....
Well in stats defense...most people seem to have no clue or to ignore how to analyze stats. It'd have been easier if you just said sample size. Or the anti-Clemens group could give the analysis some context such as O-line, running game, injuries to WRs.
Penningtons QB rating should be higher. He's more experienced and he's played with the receivers longer then Clemens has. Don't even argue it, a first year starter on a horrible team will have more problems then a vet who gets by on being a solid game manager. Again though, QB rating is a fluff stat and Chad Pennington is the shining example. You can have a nice QB rating and still not lead a team to any points, or win big games, or throw a pass to the sideline, etc.
QB Rating is like most stats, it can be manipulated easily if someone is trying to do so. Like throwing a guaranteed 5 yard completion on 3rd and 10 instead of throwing a pass that is only 40% likely to complete 11 yards down the field.
My point is more that some very good QB's had some pretty bad starts to their careers. Saying anything other than Clemens is still an unknown based on his play this year is unfair.
